Coyota

**trax** · 10-09-2007, 11:53 AM

I read an article that suggested that breeding wolves with dogs is a very dangerous idea, the outcome being a far more intelligent animal than either and very prone to wanting to be the 'alpha' animal. The guy who wrote it was supposed to be some kind of wolf behaviour expert. Forgive my not being able to offer appropriate footnotes but it was a long time ago and I forgot his name. From my own experience, wild/half-wild dogs are far more dangerous to human beings and far more likely to attack than either wolves or coyotes and they certainly run in packs. I would think that any wolf-dog hybrid or coy-dog would certainly rise to the alpha position in a pack like that.
I tend to agree with caracou, that if I see dogs running wild, I'm going to drop them.
Their survival skills are amazing by the way. I've been in communities up north where children have been mauled by dog packs and the packs roam loose all around the community. Fire one shot and the whole works of them disappear back into the bush.

I've also seen situations where wolves have attacked sled dogs.

**owl_girl** · 10-09-2007, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by trax

I read an article that suggested that breeding wolves with dogs is a very dangerous idea, the outcome being a far more intelligent animal than either and very prone to wanting to be the 'alpha' animal. The guy who wrote it was supposed to be some kind of wolf behaviour expert. Forgive my not being able to offer appropriate footnotes but it was a long time ago and I forgot his name. From my own experience, wild/half-wild dogs are far more dangerous to human beings and far more likely to attack than either wolves or coyotes and they certainly run in packs. I would think that any wolf-dog hybrid or coy-dog would certainly rise to the alpha position in a pack like that.
I tend to agree with caracou, that if I see dogs running wild, I'm going to drop them.
Their survival skills are amazing by the way. I've been in communities up north where children have been mauled by dog packs and the packs roam loose all around the community. Fire one shot and the whole works of them disappear back into the bush.

I've also seen situations where wolves have attacked sled dogs.

Different experts have different opinions. I have heard that hybrids are smarter then dogs but never did I hear that they’d be smarter then wolves and I really doubt it. Feral dogs can be dangerous whether or not they have wolf in them so if you see a feral hybrid that’s dangerous you cant just say its because it’s a hybrid but I’m talking about pets here and I’ve known wolf dogs and coy dogs and the wolf dog was not dominating, people say wolves are dominating but some are naturally omega, maybe this wolf dogs parent was an omega because I’ve seen dogs more dominant then that wolf dog ( dominant dose not mean aggressive btw ) also this wolf dog was not aggressive with strangers or other dogs and he lived with a child. I’ve heard “experts” say coy dogs were skittish and timid and that’s why they made bad pets but the one I know isn’t skittish or timid at all in fact it is the sweetest and most gentle of there 5 dogs and I’m not just saying that to push my point.
Now they are all well behaved dogs but considering the temperament of the coy dog which dog would I trust most with a child, the gentlest one…the coy dog, it would defy logic to trust the other dogs more just because he’s a coy dog, he has earned trust so he should have it regardless of his breed. I have been literally hunted by a germen shepherd, that dog was not herding me he was hunting me. He hid behind the stairs by the door and waited as my friends walked past him and out the door then as the door shut behind them I started walking that direction and he stepped out from behind the stairs lowered his head and looked at me the way the way a wolf looks at a sheep and started walking toward me slowly in a stalking manner kind of crouched down and I knew he wasn’t playing or herding me because this dog had tried to bite me a couple hours ago and I don’t just mean a nip at my ankles, the owners had put him up stars but he obviously got out. Anyway I yelled and my friends came running back in and grabbed him by the collar and locked him in the bedroom. Now I still think germen shepherds make awesome pets, I’ve known a lot of sweet ones and hey there still one of the best seeing eye dogs. If you see a vicious dog its more likely the owners fault because they didn’t understand the breed and that created the unstable behavior though the owners my not have realized it. Blaming it on the breed is a poor excuse fore the owners.

Yes wolves eat dogs but lone wolves have been known to try and become a member of a dog pack such as sled dogs.

**LadyTrapper** · 10-09-2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by owl_girl

If you see a vicious dog its more likely the owners fault because they didn’t understand the breed and that created the unstable behavior though the owners my not have realized it. Blaming it on the breed is a poor excuse fore the owners.

Being an owner of Rottwiellers for over 15 years I hear more than my fair share of controversy on these and other breeds. I have raised them along with my children and never had any aggressive issues ...ever! No bad dogs, just bad or maybe uneducated owners.
As far as hybirds go, I have always been intrigued by them. I love wolves, but because of my kids, the youngest just four, would not own one now.
When you mix the heightened instinct of a wild top predator with the social human interactions of a family pet, you may get unpredictable behaviour of that canine, natural behaviour, no fault to the hybrid.
Still...I would not make judgement on anyone for choosing to share thier lives with a crossbred wolf/dog/ coyote.
I do think it can and does happen in the wild. The same wild wolf that kills dogs, may by the very same one that will breed with that same female ***** in heat at the right time of year. The instinct to survive and reproduce could no doubt override any predatory nature.

**owl_girl** · 10-09-2007, 04:58 PM

I think that’s a responsible attitude, If your not sure about the breed don’t get it. I feel that way about all pets. Have you looked up Native Americana Indian dogs? Not to be mistaken for Americana Indian dogs. They look a lot like wolves. I plan to get one some day.

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This is where I got the pictures
http://www.terrapines.com/ourkids.htm

Some info on them.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nativeamericanindiandog.htm

**corndog-44** · 10-09-2007, 05:22 PM

Nice looking dogs.

There's no doubt that a hybrid wolf or coyote can be a fine companion for those who understand their wild core. But the thrill of living with such a magnificent creature must be tempered by the knowledge that the animal will forever be unpredictable, that mistakes in training may never be forgiven, and that alpha status must always be reinforced. The average pet-owning family is much better off with "just" a dog.

Statistics from the Center of Disease Control and Prevention show that Pit Bull Terriers, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Siberian Huskies, Alaskan Malamuts and Wolf Hybrids are involved in most fatal attacks on people in the U.S.

By the way; coydogs can produce 2 litters per year against the 1 litter that coyotes produce.

**owl_girl** · 10-09-2007, 05:52 PM

I hear the word unpredictable a lot when people talk about wild animals but I don’t believe I’ve ever seen an unpredictable animal (tame or not). They are governed by instincts and when you understand those instincts the animal is no longer that unpredictable. I’m not saying animals don’t have individual personalities as they do but they are still driven by instincts. Never have I seen a dog bite without warning, now whether or not the human noticed or recognized the warning is another story as a warning can be very subtle and very fast but its there.

It my indeed take a special person to raise a stable hybrid, someone that understands the breed, possibly someone who spent time in the field leaning wolf behavior, someone who has the time, and space. Such a responsible owner shouldn’t be criticized. From my experience a hybrid can be stable, it just needs the proper guidance.

**LadyTrapper** · 10-09-2007, 07:35 PM

Absolutely gorgeous Native Americana Indian dogs! Never heard of this breed, but would love to own one someday.

Those statistics are accurate. The dogs listed have the power and strength to make a fatal attack. However, according to medical records and other research, so I have read recently, it is actually spaniels and their many breeds(brittanys, cocker etc) that have the most report of bites and aggressive behaviour leading to injury...not fatal however.
Regardless they can all make good well behaved lifelong companions leaving pawprints on our hearts!

**trax** · 10-10-2007, 12:43 PM

You're certainly right owl_girl that there's plenty of experts with plenty of opinions and those are absolutely beautiful dogs btw. My point was, and still is, slightly different than what you're espousing I think. I have no doubt that coyotes or wolves will breed with a dog, trapped or wild, if the situation is right...hey romance is romance, lol. Anyone capable of raising an animal properly knows what animal they're dealing with and will train/raise that animal accordingly (hopefully). When I was a child my Dad used to take me to visit this old trapper who had a pet timber wolf (on a very heavy chain)

What I was referring to was how much more dangerous those hybrids become when they run wild. Even dogs...of any breed...running wild are more dangerous to people because they have no inherent fear, until a few of them get shot at, unfortunately. When one combines the wolf's intellectual superiority and the dog's familiarity with people, well there are situations where it's gotten pretty bad. The other problem that I've been witness to can be laid squarely at the feet of people (as usual) in the fact that dogs in some communities are breeding willy-nilly and any offspring that survive are left to run wild. Those communities then wind up with wild dog packs that are a threat to the weak and to small children. Often some of those animals are hybrids as well. I know of three different situation in about the last five years where children on northern reserves have been killed by wild dog packs. They may have been "just dogs" or some of them part wolf, doesn't much matter to the victims now, but I'm very familiar with the power and smarts of a wolf and the thought of making those wild dogs more dangerous, well,, I'd rather shoot first and ask later.

**owl_girl** · 10-10-2007, 02:41 PM

That’s sad that there’s such a problem with wild dog packs. I don’t have any in my area, at least not that I heard of.

I have heard by a lot of sources that keeping a wolf on a chain is bad for it and can sometimes cause unstable behavior. Sorry if I’m nit picking at your post.

**trax** · 10-10-2007, 03:24 PM

I don't think you're nitpicking at all. Personally, I wouldn't keep a wolf---on a chain or off. One time up north I was out in the bush cutting firewood and I could hear wolf pups crying. I stopped what I was doing and tried to find the den, but never did. I would have stolen one at the time (females are left alone by the pack after birthing and are very weak while the pups are still suckling) In hindsight, I'm glad I never found them, because I've also had the opportunity to meet wolves in the wild and I can't think of a more magnificent creature.

I also remember seeing two wolves in a zoo and I had this sense that they both wished they were dead. It wasn't pleasant.

**FVR** · 10-10-2007, 07:29 PM

I've had my share of running into wild dogs while deer hunting in the NJ Pine Barrens. One time a pack chased us while we were riding our motorcycles, we got back to the truck and the bikes loaded just in time. Dogs were jumping all over the truck.

Seen them while deer hunting, that's why I always carry as many arrows as possible. Never had the notion to shoot one, never been attacked.

I don't hunt with those that shoot dogs in the woods. Had a friend who got pissed when a dog chased his deer away. He shot the dog, that was the last time I hunted with him.

I won't even shoot a coyote, most times they are just scardycats anyway.

Many years ago, I got a call from a gent out west about building pony bows. We started talking and he asked me if I was hunting his property and saw a wolf, would I shoot it. I told him I would not. When he asked me why, I told him that besides the mysticism around them, I don't eat dog. He then invited me to hunt his property.

He was a Blackfoot Indian and brother to the wolf.

**owl_girl** · 10-10-2007, 09:58 PM

My grandparents dog’s sometimes get loose and go exploring. We’re always worried someone will think there wild and shoot, this almost happened once but luckily the guy saw their collars before he pulled the trigger.

I wouldn't kill a dog unless it tried to attack me.

**HOP** · 10-11-2007, 07:29 AM

I think it is mostly about socialization. If canines are keep on a chain or inclosed including a fenced yard they are more likely to be agressive. I have a mexican wolk shepherd male that I have had since he was 7 weeks and he is 2 years now he is friendly and many kids and people come up to see him he is black and a good loking dog. I keep him on a retractable leash when out except in the woods . he is playful with other dogs, he has been raised with other dogs, and he likes most people. His big brother that is a year older from the same parents is scary agresive and doesn't get much social mixing with people a small dog dug into the back yard and was killed and eaten. My point is that my dog from the same blood gets a lot of love and attention is great band big brother is too dangerious to be left with strangers. If some one has to chain or pen there dog for any reason owes the dog the time to get it out and pay atention to it.

**trax** · 10-11-2007, 11:35 AM

It's really easy to tell the difference between a dog attacking, a dog planning to attack or a dog just running loose, same as any thing else. Just study the "body language" for a few seconds. The dogs I've been describing as running loose are running in packs and are always on the outskirts of a human community. When it's not safe for people to let their children play outside because they might get mauled to death by dogs, I have no hesitation about popping those dogs (perhaps I wasn't clear about that earlier) At the same time, I've seen peoples' pets run loose in those communities and guess what? They don't join the pack, they go home! Well cared for dogs tend to remain loyal.

As FVR pointed out, those dogs aren't "scaredy-cats" the way coyotes usually are. Personally, I have no call to shoot any kind of canine (especially wolves) and I'm not going to start dining on them either, but in the situation I've been describing, without hesitation.

**wareagle69** · 10-11-2007, 05:15 PM

corndog do your stats show which breed of domestic bite the most?

you will be amazed at what the answer is..

**owl_girl** · 10-11-2007, 05:31 PM

I think Chihuahua are the most aggressive breed but they don’t get the bad rap because there to small to do any real damage. You know the ones that think they’re bigger then you, run in circles around you biting at your ankles.