Group Survival 101.

**ryaninmichigan** · 08-27-2007, 12:05 PM

Nope that was me forgot all about it. Anyway thanx for choosing me to be on your team.

**trax** · 08-27-2007, 03:50 PM

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**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 08:45 PM

There always has to be an Alpha Dog. Nothing worse than sitting down and having to debate, discuss, and argue about every decision.

Sometimes you have to take the hill, because you have to take the hill.

But then I'm a military man. If the wood needs to get cut, cut the freak'n wood, don't argue about who is going to do it, just get the job done.

Ahh, but what do I know, I just get the job done.

**Sarge47** · 08-27-2007, 09:06 PM

Me thinkum you braves sayin' "Too many chiefs, not enough injuns?" So white man have solution? How we pick chief from this tribe?

**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 10:35 PM

The dynamics of the tribe will determine the leader.

If you have a bunch of greenhorns, the leader will be the one who has the most knowledge. Knowledge is power.

If you have a bunch of military pers., the leader will be the one with the most respect. Respect is earned, not given. Most, respected leaders were good followers, they knew when to push, when to stay, and when to take a step back.

Sarge, the leader of your group will be Volwest, his second in command will be wareagle. The leader will train his replacement, his second in command.

The leader will eventually fullfill his destiny, he should gladly back off and let his second in command take the reins. The former leader at that point will be the wiseman, a confidant, the one that may not have the final say, but has the wisdom to input what the leader may miss.

I'm just the smartass that cuts the wood.

**Sarge47** · 08-27-2007, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by FVR

The dynamics of the tribe will determine the leader.

If you have a bunch of greenhorns, the leader will be the one who has the most knowledge. Knowledge is power.

If you have a bunch of military pers., the leader will be the one with the most respect. Respect is earned, not given. Most, respected leaders were good followers, they knew when to push, when to stay, and when to take a step back.

Sarge, the leader of your group will be Volwest, his second in command will be wareagle. The leader will train his replacement, his second in command.

The leader will eventually fullfill his destiny, he should gladly back off and let his second in command take the reins. The former leader at that point will be the wiseman, a confidant, the one that may not have the final say, but has the wisdom to input what the leader may miss.

I'm just the smartass that cuts the wood.

How many posts did it take to come up with a name for the leader? I'll vote for VW if you can promise me he'll keep the verbage down.

Wareagle, ah yes! I'll probably call him "Snoring Moose" though.

I can cook, gather wood, use an axe, sing, workin' on playin' my harp, (Not as good as Les, though) hope ya all like "Blues"; and the most important thing, take direction/orders! Sir, yes sir!

**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 11:00 PM

Sarge,

You will only need to cook.

You cook good rabbit, pilgrim.

**Sarge47** · 08-27-2007, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by FVR

Sarge,

You will only need to cook.

You cook good rabbit, pilgrim.

Just keep VW out of my kitchen area; if he starts talkin' about having a relationship with the food........

**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 11:11 PM

Nobody mess' with the grumpy cook.

Just make sure that you keep one cup of coffee hot. Good leaders let the troops eat first. It's always nice to have a hot cup of coffee.

**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 11:14 PM

The easy part is done. You have the leader, the second in command, and the cook.

Place your remaining group members.

Owl-Girl
Foggy
RiM (he could even have his 5 relatives)
Trax
Marscroft

**Sarge47** · 08-27-2007, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by FVR

Nobody mess' with the grumpy cook.

Just make sure that you keep one cup of coffee hot. Good leaders let the troops eat first. It's always nice to have a hot cup of coffee.

You'll have to teach me about coffee, I'm a tea drinker. Got this right out of a survival book, BTW, "Tea quenches thirst, Coffee agravates it. I always let everyone else eat first, that way if the foods bad I'll know!

Also, what about Owl Girl, she's got some savy, any female who wants to study up on knife steel...

**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 11:23 PM

Now remember, if RiM and his 5 family members, (12 total) don't like what's happening. They can overthrow your group, or take all your provisions and set off and start their own group.

**Sarge47** · 08-27-2007, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by FVR

Now remember, if RiM and his 5 family members, (12 total) don't like what's happening. They can overthrow your group, or take all your provisions and set off and start their own group.

That's why we got VW & WE! VW can keep them psyched out and Wareagle will sic "Norm" on them if they get outta hand.

Seriously though, the thing is that in any survival situation anybody can do what you just said, if they have the numbers. The alternative may be leaving someone to die, and in my opinion that's not an option unless the situation warrants it, and then you'd better be 100% sure!

**FVR** · 08-27-2007, 11:39 PM

What you will find out is that your "group" will have sub groups. VW an WE won't have to win over the whole RiM clan. but rather win over the leader of that group.

With the creation of the RiM group, the other members will feel alienated, thus forming their own group.

In essence, VW will have a major headache and WE will have to take action.

WE will be pursued by both "sub groups" to influence VW for their own good.

At that point, WE's loyalty will surface.

We can only speculate what would happen. WE being a mil. man, will be in the most demanding position.

And I will be chopping wood.

"We have graves to dig."

**ryaninmichigan** · 08-28-2007, 09:06 AM

Your biggest problem will be the fact I own half the group form the get go. Not that I am that type of person, VW does way too much pondering to be my leader. If we need to cut wood we need to cut would not discover why we desire to have fire.

FVR is right sub groups will form and the leaders of these groups will collectively lead the whole group. You will have hunters, gathers, and camp keepers. There will be these sub group leaders and within the sub groups the pecking order will be formed naturally.

The key to survival is the diversity of the group and the willingness to put worth one effort in exchange for another. And to see the value of the other effort. I value the Gathers leaks and fire wood, while he values my venison and hides. WE both value the Cook and makers of shelter while we were gone…

We should start a thread based on a few assumptions Play each post as actions we are taking and see where the chips fall. Maybe we will all end up killing each other maybe we will end being the first trading post in the after TSHTF.

**trax** · 08-28-2007, 11:00 AM

volwest doesn't want to be leader? YOu might want to check with both he and wareagle before assigning all your other positions, and Sarge--I make the best campfire coffee (not my vote on that...I've been told) so I'll show you that and then I'm outta the kitchen, never P### off the cook!

**trax** · 08-28-2007, 11:45 AM

I asked that question based on how volwest described his own role in a group survival scenario. And I see that we already have a "challenge" to that position. Volwest didnt' seem like it was a role he wanted to take on.

My personal viewpoint, and I'm not a military man, but still am very much in agreement with FVR, get it done. Still, I wouldn't see myself in the position of leader either, there are certain tasks that I know I would excel at and I would start on those, conversely if a group leader says "not today man, we need you to give FVR a hand splitting wood or Sarge a hand in the kitchen" then I'm ok with that.

By virtue of the situation as we've visualized it to date too, group members need to have an awareness and respect for each other's positions. For instance, if it is RiM's and my job to hunt game for a group, then other group members need to appreciate that we're going to be keeping different hours. Flip side of the coin is, if FVR is hauling firewood into camp, he doesn't need someone *****ing "why aren't you out there gutting an elk with trax?" etc. You guys get the point, no need in my belaboring it.

Personally, my first choice for leader would be between FVR and Wareagle. If they take first and second post, with either of them in either order, I'm cool with it. The other consideration that every good leader is aware of is recognizing the expertise of the group members at their assigned tasks. So....Nell and owl-girl are both pretty good at finding wild foods, medicines etc, the group leader gets them to look, but doesn't say where to look or how or what to look for, that's their expertise. Tell me you need meat, don't try telling me how to get it, cuz I'll just smile and nod and do what I was going to do in the first place.

Just two cents worth.

**Sarge47** · 08-28-2007, 12:11 PM

Of course VW might decline leadership...up front! With his knowledge of psycology he could covertly lead from the flanks, without others being aware of it. His strength would be in identifying any potential problems within the group and suggestions on how to handle them. I think it looks more like a team, but maybe a team "captain" is also needed. Whoever is picked will have to be voted in unanimously as that would cause fewer divisions. And Trax, you could make coffee anytime pard, and stick around jawin' too! I was mostly joking about people in the way. There is a time for people to stand back, but not always. Finally, if there's a "common foe" outside the group, that can oft-times pull the people inside tighter together.

**owl_girl** · 08-28-2007, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by ryaninmichigan

We should start a thread based on a few assumptions Play each post as actions we are taking and see where the chips fall. Maybe we will all end up killing each other maybe we will end being the first trading post in the after TSHTF.

You mean you want to role play it?

**trax** · 08-28-2007, 12:33 PM

I think that governance in a small group can rely heavily on "council", where a leader has opportunity to gain from any and all member's expertise. Immediate decisions, when required, are up to that leader. Disciplinary measures and "motivation" are also up to that leader. There's a time for both, council based decisions and unilateral decisions. Unanimous agreement is rare, but consensus can be garnered in those situations (vis: I don't agree with Sarge's coffee making, but for the sake of the group I agree to let him keep trying) A "foe" to the group is where volwest first suggested his own expertise. In a council setting he might suggest that he could utilize my skills, or WE's, or RiM's in dealing with those foes. The situation as I'm describing it is much like the way most North American native groups functioned back in the day.

Sarge just re-identified something that volwest mentioned earlier. His own penchant for being one who distances himself from the rest of the group because of the task that he has taken responsibility for, personally, I tend to be much the same way, that's the reason why I mentioned what I did earlier. Hunting is a good example, I'm going to be where my prey is when it's there, that may require me to be catching some sleep while others are working or hanging out around Sarge's kitchen looking for a bite to eat during "off" hours. The group...in council...finds agreement in that, the leader makes allowances for it to happen.

Of course, I'm babbling for nothing in a lot of this because I don't have the right to speak for volwest and he's definitely not someone I want to make assumptions for

The same goes for the FVR, WE, Nell, owl_girl and the rest. I'm just trying to throw in some "how about this..." scenarios