Living off the land - Would you?

[DOGMAN]

Mountaintrekker I like what your saying. Saving up and buying a land "out right" is a good solution. However, places like the mountainous regions of Montana, Wyoming and Idaho will be out of the reach for most folks, as land as very expensive. But, that is a good way to go if you can afford it. Alaska still has plenty of places with affordable land- so it is still the last frontier.
The struggle with this dream is really time vs money. It is hard to have both.

[grundle]

consider option 6? Live extremely frugally for 2 or 3 years while working two jobs and pushing all of that money into a renewable investment. Once it has reached a reasonable point it will produce a monthly income for you. Any money you do not use that money goes back into the fund making it grow even more.

I call this the short term sacrifice for long term satisfaction plan. I am currently working on it. I want to get to the point where I can take 2 years off "work" to pursue a dream or two and not be tied by economics. This is very possible, and I am a few years away from achieving it.

[DOGMAN]

Good idea Grundle...that is something I have really realized in the past few years- there are people that Work for their money and there are people that there money works for them. Achieving the latter really frees a person up to pursue dreams

[Mountaintrekker]

Grundle,
That is a good idea. I guess I kind of did that originally. I worked in the tech industry and used my money to buy some raw land in the wilds. We built on it and lived for next to nothing for 2 years now we are selling at a large profit and using that to get us to Alaska.
Good point, thanks for posting it! Now if I could just get something solid to pay me a nice monthly

[grundle]

I unfortunately am climbing out of a car loan, old credit card, and a current mortgage. The good part is I tore that credit card up about 2 years ago. I have decided to never take a loan on a car again (ever). And the mortgage I have re-financed to a fixed-rate TOP DOWN loan.

When I say "top down" I mean that the principle is applied to the NEXT payment, whereas almost all loans right now apply the principle to the LAST payment. That means the bastard mortgage companies are maximizing the amount of interest they are milking you for. Fortunately I found a decent company that allows me to pay twice a month, and apply the extra on my payments to the principle. My interest is automatically re-calculated after every payment.

Previously I was paying extra and I would have probably payed the house of in around 22 years. I am paying the same amount extra as before with this loan (which has a higher interest rate) and I will pay it off early in 15 years (rough estimate). That does not account for the money I will take from my current car and credit card payments to throw at the mortgage. I think I can get it payed off in about 5 - 8 years. From there all my money goes to investments to build up my renewable fund.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

I have had the pleasure and taste of both worlds as in all things it has it's plus and minusus. Hate to admit it but Iam lil spoiled to make it permenent and health aint what it used to be specially since I'm dependent on specs lol but man can dream

[wildWoman]

We've been living in the bush since 2005 and neither us nor any of the other 9 people I personally know who have been living in the bush for over a decade really "live off the land". It's a nice idea propagated by popular books and movies but that's pretty much it. The reality of living full-time, long-term in the wilderness is quite a bit different than book editors and movie makers would really like to have it.
We all fish and hunt and forage and garden, but that still leaves plenty of food items that need to be bought and brought in. And, as others pointed out already, you do need money, and the more of it, the more remote you live because transportation is going to cost you one way or another.
Earning money in the bush is the hardest thing of it all. I'd recommend to people who can think of ways to utilize the internet for $ making to get a satellite system for the bush. That way, you neither have to bring tourists in, nor go out on contracts, have peace and quiet.
So while it's a great life, don't believe all you read or watch on DVD. Talk to people who've been doing it for a long time if you're actually interested in how it really is, don't listen to the ones who did it for a one-year experiment that sent them back to the suburbs with their tail between the legs.

[klkak]

So while it's a great life, don't believe all you read or watch on DVD. Talk to people who've been doing it for a long time if you're actually interested in how it really is, don't listen to the ones who did it for a one-year experiment that sent them back to the suburbs with their tail between the legs.

Very good advice WildWoman.

[wildWoman]

Another thing to bear in mind - the north was populated by nomadic peoples for a reason: living year-round in the same spot meant starvation and death. The north is not what you'd call a lush ecosystem.
If anyone's interested in pondering the living off the land longterm idea, here's the list of groceries we buy every year, that we can't hunt or harvest; then consider if for the rest of your life you could do without them. Pasta, rice, cereal, oats, milk, cheese, barley, chick peas, lentils, peanut butter, butter, margarine, olive oil, sunflower oil, nutella, sugar, coffee, black tea, dried fruit, fresh fruit, some fresh veggies, flour, yeast, baking poweder, cornstarch, cocoa, lemon juice, juice, and spices. For two people, for a year, that costs about $2,300.-
Then there's dogfood - no we don't deplete the fish and moose stocks for the dogs; imagine home canning dog food!

[Rick]

Grundle - Good for you! You've set out your personal goals and defined how you are going to reach them. Not many folks do that then they wonder where it went wrong.

Think about not having a car loan for a moment. If you pay cash then you have lost not only the principle but also any interest you would have earned. If you take out a home equity loan then you still have the cash you would have spent, you still earn interest (on whatever investment vehicle you've chosen) and you can probably write the loan off on your taxes. That makes for a win win for you as long as you don't spend the cash on something else. You'll try, of course to earn more interest on your cash than you spend on the equity loan so you still come out ahead. Just earmark that cash for your car then you will have it if you choose at some point to get out of the loan or need to for whatever reason.

On the credit card debt, it's okay to cut up the card to keep you from using it but you may not want to close the account. Your credit score is judged on the amount of credit you have available and the credit load you carry. Closing the account means you will have LESS credit available and that might decrease your credit score. I hope that makes sense. You can call your credit card company every six months or so and ask them to lower your interest rate. If you've been a good customer, they will generally do that for you. Just make certain you get a fixed rate and not one based on the prime.

You've obviously taken the time to educate yourself and that really is the first step to independence. Thanks for posting that. It was an excellent post.

[trax]

Geez Rick, I didn't know you were grading us on these posts, kinda makes me want to try a little harder...nah, never mind.

[Rick]

Yap, yap, yap. The man made a good post. I didn't grade it. I congratulated him for having the foresight and fortitude (like those words?) to set his goals and stick to them.

[Stony]

I make a living of the land the past 20 years. forests, game, fish.
it makes money for me, we eat it. no big deal.
working the woods, guiding, fishing.....
you get the idea, don't you?

[dilligaf2u2]

Do I get to pick the land I live off of!

The area between the Starbucks and the Safeway would not be too hard to adjust too!

Don

[Rick]

See? It attitudes like Don's that will ensure survival of the specie. The man thinks out of the box. We will be hacking our way through swamps and he'll be eating bacon from Safeway and drinking fresh brewed coffee.

[Aurelius95]

I unfortunately am climbing out of a car loan, old credit card, and a current mortgage.

Previously I was paying extra and I would have probably payed the house of in around 22 years. I am paying the same amount extra as before with this loan (which has a higher interest rate) and I will pay it off early in 15 years (rough estimate). That does not account for the money I will take from my current car and credit card payments to throw at the mortgage. I think I can get it payed off in about 5 - 8 years. From there all my money goes to investments to build up my renewable fund.

Grundle, one thing to consider is once you have paid off your car and your credit card, use those payments to pay down additional principal on your mortgage. If your throwing, say, an extra $500 a month towards your house, it'll certainly cut into the time it takes to pay it off. (Not knowing what you pay on your car loan or credit card, I assumed $500 is safe- it may be more... or less).

[grundle]

Grundle, one thing to consider is once you have paid off your car and your credit card, use those payments to pay down additional principal on your mortgage. If your throwing, say, an extra $500 a month towards your house, it'll certainly cut into the time it takes to pay it off. (Not knowing what you pay on your car loan or credit card, I assumed $500 is safe- it may be more... or less).

I agree totally with you. That is what I said in my reply to Mountaineer in fact

[indiana joe]

that has been a dream of mine since i was little.
closes i have been to that is as a kid we had no electric cooked on open
fire all year long. fetch water from the creek and had rain barrels.
with a out house for a bathroom. showered in rain durring summer or
horse troth in winter heated water on wood burning stove.
are house had three walls completed 4th wall was blankets nailed to the
house.love it all what year was this 1884 nope this was in 1984

[Ridge Wolf]

Grundle - Good for you! You've set out your personal goals and defined how you are going to reach them. Not many folks do that then they wonder where it went wrong.

Think about not having a car loan for a moment. If you pay cash then you have lost not only the principle but also any interest you would have earned. If you take out a home equity loan then you still have the cash you would have spent, you still earn interest (on whatever investment vehicle you've chosen) and you can probably write the loan off on your taxes. That makes for a win win for you as long as you don't spend the cash on something else. You'll try, of course to earn more interest on your cash than you spend on the equity loan so you still come out ahead. Just earmark that cash for your car then you will have it if you choose at some point to get out of the loan or need to for whatever reason.

On the credit card debt, it's okay to cut up the card to keep you from using it but you may not want to close the account. Your credit score is judged on the amount of credit you have available and the credit load you carry. Closing the account means you will have LESS credit available and that might decrease your credit score. I hope that makes sense. You can call your credit card company every six months or so and ask them to lower your interest rate. If you've been a good customer, they will generally do that for you. Just make certain you get a fixed rate and not one based on the prime.

You've obviously taken the time to educate yourself and that really is the first step to independence. Thanks for posting that. It was an excellent post.

This is all fine Rick, but what if he loses his job.. and then they start calling on the phone.. and won't stop. Then is when the reverse of what you describe happens and they come in the middle of the night to repossess the car.. Forclosure is not a pleasant experience either.. even if he were to get another job... say for less income per month.. It happens and I know that for sure. Twice in my lifetime I have had to cash in 401K's to pay off bills.. no other option.. Damn economy / job market does it to us everytime.

So, I vote to get out of the darned debt and stay out of it... much better off in the long run.

[Rick]

I don't know where you get that. I said to reserve the cash he would have spent on the car. If he looses his job, he still has the option of using the reserve to make the car payments or pay the note off as I indicated. By not spending it, he not only retains the principle he also makes more money on the investment.

Just earmark that cash for your car then you will have it if you choose at some point to get out of the loan or need to for whatever reason.