Civil War Buffs?

**Zack** · 02-16-2015, 07:38 PM

I don't know if there are any Civil War buffs here, but I think that if there are, we could get some good discussions going, particularly in the bushcraft/survival department. Soldiers on both sides were able to survive with very little gear, compared to us, anyway, and discover quite a few tricks that may be useful in the field. What do you know about the Civil War? Particularly, field practices during the War?

**Rick** · 02-17-2015, 07:18 AM

I am a great reader of history and have studied the Civil War quite a bit. One of my relatives served with the North (Company C, 15th Regiment, Illinois Cavalry). The amount of gear they required, either on their person or through supply trains, was quite large. Ask any of the reenactors on here what they carried on their person and you'll find it was a lot. Interestingly, the one thing they did not carry, on either side, was a form of identification. Some sewed their name into their clothes for fear of being buried as an unknown. Still, many men met that fate. I've seen numbers as high as 600,000 unknown.

Here's an interesting fact for you. There was a farm in Mannassas, VA that belonged to Wilmer McLean. Both armies were converging on his farm at the First Battle of Bull Run, which was the opening battle of the civil war (Manassas for you southerners). In order to save his family he moved them. That battle took place on and around his former farm. Three and a half years later Lee would surrender to Grant at Appomattox Court House. The very home Wimer purchased when he left Manassas. His wife would claim the war started in her front yard and ended in her front parlor, which it did. Crazy huh?

**Zack** · 02-17-2015, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

I am a great reader of history and have studied the Civil War quite a bit. One of my relatives served with the North (Company C, 15th Regiment, Illinois Cavalry). The amount of gear they required, either on their person or through supply trains, was quite large. Ask any of the reenactors on here what they carried on their person and you'll find it was a lot. Interestingly, the one thing they did not carry, on either side, was a form of identification. Some sewed their name into their clothes for fear of being buried as an unknown. Still, many men met that fate. I've seen numbers as high as 600,000 unknown.

Here's an interesting fact for you. There was a farm in Mannassas, VA that belonged to Wilmer McLean. Both armies were converging on his farm at the First Battle of Bull Run, which was the opening battle of the civil war (Manassas for you southerners). In order to save his family he moved them. That battle took place on and around his former farm. Three and a half years later Lee would surrender to Grant at Appomattox Court House. The very home Wimer purchased when he left Manassas. His wife would claim the war started in her front yard and ended in her front parlor, which it did. Crazy huh?

I haven't ever reenacted, but from what I've read, I have found that the gear they carried wasn't a lot, compared to our standards. You may know better than I, but something of particular interest to me was the troops that took part in Sherman's March to the Sea (I know, I know, those

Yankees, but just here me out) took very, very little with them. This allowed them to move quickly, an average of about 15 miles a day, by foot... From what I gather, a lot of their equipment would be considered "bushcrafty" by today's standards. Some only took a wool blanket, tin cup, knife, shelter half, and a few other personal items. While that may not be a fair comparison, given that most troops took more, but I think that it gives us a decent topic to discuss...

As for poor Mr. McLean, I have heard that story before. Since I'm in Delaware, I've got the opportunity to visit a lot of battlefields easily, most are only two hours away from my house. I've been to his home at Manassas, but not to the one at Appomattox. Like you say, it's a really strange coincidence.

**Rick** · 02-17-2015, 09:22 AM

If your comparison is between soldiers then and soldiers now then you are correct. I took your post to mean "us" as in those on this forum compared to soldiers then. I think the average pack for a Federal soldier was around 60 pounds. Confederate soldiers slightly less. Federal troops normally carried 8 days rations in addition to their musket, musket gear and other items. Confederate soldiers carried a bit less but a march of 25 miles was not unusual. Remember that some of those "soldiers" were in their middle teens and younger still carrying 50-60 lb packs.

Our rendezvous enacters probably carried about the same gear on their person, give or take the period they reenact. They would know more than me on that.

**pete lynch** · 02-17-2015, 10:41 AM

Zack's right about the proximity of those battlefields: In one day over the Christmas/New Year holidays, I visited Manasass, Winchester, Harpers Ferry, Monocacy and finished up the day in Gettysburg. So from Delaware to Maryland to Virginia to West Virginia and back through about 1 minute of Virginia again into Maryland up us340 to I70 to rt355 to Monocacy Battlefield park and turn back to head up us15 to Gettysburg. I drove rt30 across southern PA to get home. 450+ miles.

**hunter63** · 02-17-2015, 11:01 AM

Re-enacting is a wonderful way to learn, and practice history.

Each period has it fans, ad does ten to accumulate gear, weapons, habits and methods in the attempt to bee as accurate as possible.

My interest has been the fur trade era, 1800 to 1830's....and have been drifting back to French and Indian War 1750's and 1760's, which requires more study, and gear collecting to be correct.

There is a great interest in Civil War in out area....with the county maintaining a very good museum....even though the area wasn't fought in....many ancestors did.

Gonna watch this thread and see where it goes.

**Rick** · 02-17-2015, 11:38 AM

You folks had the Wisconsin Iron Brigade that was part of the Army of the Potomac. Pretty tough bunch of men.

**kyratshooter** · 02-17-2015, 11:48 AM

Even in todays military there is a difference in garrison gear, outpost gear and patrol gear.

During the CW each Company was assigned several wagons for carrying the essentials; food, shelters, ammunition.

Campaigns were geared around the weather, due to the baggage trains that were often 20-25 miles long, not being about to keep up with the troops.

The Roman soldier carried the same load out that toady's troops do, about 70 pounds. Going into battle all of that was dropped but the weapons and armor. Same for the CW soldier. They were issued rucksacks for their gear or improvised them, carried blankets, sometimes a shelter half, cooking and eating gear and a day's rations on their person. They carried a weapon that weighed more than that of today, plus they had more cooking gear than today (which has been trimmed back to zero).

The CW soldier was fighting in a settled agricultural area and everything he needed was brought too him by the quartermaster. The improvised part of his existence was about the same as all troops have done before or since.

If you wish to study "survival" or bushcraft skills of troops you have to go back to the frontier era and glean from Rodgers Rangers, Morgan's riflemen or any of the state militias raised in the western counties of the colonies.

Or look into the lives of the early market hunters of the east or the mountain men of the west. Boone and Crocket were not the only people that crossed the mountains and risked both natural and/or violent deaths.

Simon Kenton was once forced to flee into the snow covered wilderness naked and unarmed. He survived.

Hugh Glass was left for dead after being mauled by a grizzly, refused to die, crawled many miles to civilization for help and survived.

When Daniel Boone, and his brother Squire, became hopelessly lost while on a hunt a man named Kasper Mansker was sent to find them and bring them home from the uncharted wilderness. Does that make Boone the greatest woodsman or Kasper Mansker, the guy you never heard of.

I can go on and on for hours. For most of my life the frontier eras and its lifestyle have been my interest and for 40 years it was my professional focus. I have written reams of paper on the subject, all of it scoured by grad school professors and graded. I survived that experience too.

You want to see bush craft contact either the North American Mountain Men or the Coalition of Historic Trekers. AMM has a three year entry process and the Coalition requires an inspection before each patrol to insure all gear is period correct and you are not bringing too much to make things a challenge. They do the "Dual Survival" thing without the film crew or backup, they make it work and they use no gear that was invented after 1840!

We used to do some crazy crap back when I was working with them. We didn't even call it "survival", just duplication of what was done in the past.

**Zack** · 02-17-2015, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

If your comparison is between soldiers then and soldiers now then you are correct. I took your post to mean "us" as in those on this forum compared to soldiers then. I think the average pack for a Federal soldier was around 60 pounds. Confederate soldiers slightly less. Federal troops normally carried 8 days rations in addition to their musket, musket gear and other items. Confederate soldiers carried a bit less but a march of 25 miles was not unusual. Remember that some of those "soldiers" were in their middle teens and younger still carrying 50-60 lb packs.

Our rendezvous enacters probably carried about the same gear on their person, give or take the period they reenact. They would know more than me on that.

I have never heard about troops carrying eight days worth of rations, but that's not to say that they didn't. Nor have I ever heard that troops carried 50-60 lb. packs. I had always heard that the typical infantryman carried a set of equipment like this:

http://www.memorialhall.mass.edu/act...r_soldier.html

I don't know how accurate the article is, but I think it does a decent job of simply outlining the basic field gear carried by troops during the war. I'm sure that they often had some sort of support from horse and mule teams as well, lightening up the load by quite a bit. They would have been able to carry minimal gear, compared to what most hikers and backpackers carry today. But I may be wrong... Do you know of any members that are re-enactors? I'd like to hear their take.

**Zack** · 02-17-2015, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by pete lynch

Zack's right about the proximity of those battlefields: In one day over the Christmas/New Year holidays, I visited Manasass, Winchester, Harpers Ferry, Monocacy and finished up the day in Gettysburg. So from Delaware to Maryland to Virginia to West Virginia and back through about 1 minute of Virginia again into Maryland up us340 to I70 to rt355 to Monocacy Battlefield park and turn back to head up us15 to Gettysburg. I drove rt30 across southern PA to get home. 450+ miles.

That sounds like an enjoyable but tiring trip. Sounds like you had fun though.

**Rick** · 02-17-2015, 01:28 PM

" Each man had eight days' rations to carry..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_in_the_American_Civil_War

"...Meade issued eight day’s rations to the men,..."

http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields...-campaign.html

"We were issued eights days rations..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=NW...ations&f=false

**kyratshooter** · 02-17-2015, 02:50 PM

I have read veterans journals that stated that issue of extended rations was a dreaded event. The only time it happened was when a battle was about to start or they were breaking away from the supply train, which they considered impending doom.

Also consider what the rations were. Mostly hard tack, salt pork, rice beans and coffee and they were definite weight issued per person. The quartermaster had the issue down to a science, usually about a pound of each per man per week of beans and rice, one pound hard tack per day, 4 pounds of salt pork and 1 1/2 pounds coffee. (those are approximate amounts based on memory) Except for part of the hard tack these rations were usually pooled into a "mess" made up of a specific number of men so that one person could do the cooking while others preformed other camp and garrison duties. Fresh meat and vegetables were provided to the "mess" when available.

Eight days marching rations would generally be one pound of hard tack per day and about 1 1/2 pounds coffee. Actually less than 10 pounds food. There would be no time to cook and they were not too big on a balanced diet back then. Often they would break the hard tack up with their rifle butt and put the pieces in a tin cup with a bail, they would hang the cup from their belt and let the biscuit soak as they walked, hoping it would get soft enough to eat by the time they stopped.

One of the features of a CW army was that any time they halted for more than a few minutes the troops started building fires and brewing coffee. They were addicted to caffeine. Often they would boil the hard tack in their coffee when on the march.

These rations were not carried in the rucksack because it would attract mice which chewed through the well made and valuable item. Rations were carried in a "haversack" which was a cloth bag with a single shoulder strap. They were usually made from cheap fabric and were considered "disposable" equipment. Sometimes they were painted to give some form of waterproofing.

I am sort of speaking out of turn here due to the CW not being my concentration era. My work was mostly 1600-1800. Still, you pick up some info by osmosis and because most courses of study have big hunks of CW as requirements. I stayed away from CW as much as possible because it actually bored me.

**Rick** · 02-17-2015, 03:18 PM

Coffee was often a trade item between Federal and CSA troops when they weren't fighting. Coffee was in short supply with CSA troops but they did have tobacco, which was not part of the Federal troopers rations. One of the things the Federal troops had was dessicated vegetables, usually potatoes or even mixed vegetables. Perhaps some of you re-enacters have tried them. I haven't but I have read a few letters/diaries that referred to them as bailed hay. I remember reading somewhere that a cubic yard of dessicated vegetables was 16,000 servings.

**Zack** · 02-17-2015, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

" Each man had eight days' rations to carry..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_in_the_American_Civil_War

"...Meade issued eight day’s rations to the men,..."

http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields...-campaign.html

"We were issued eights days rations..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=NW...ations&f=false

Wow, I hadn't heard that before. I'm already learning!

**Zack** · 02-17-2015, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

Coffee was often a trade item between Federal and CSA troops when they weren't fighting. Coffee was in short supply with CSA troops but they did have tobacco, which was not part of the Federal troopers rations. One of the things the Federal troops had was dessicated vegetables, usually potatoes or even mixed vegetables. Perhaps some of you re-enacters have tried them. I haven't but I have read a few letters/diaries that referred to them as bailed hay. I remember reading somewhere that a cubic yard of dessicated vegetables was 16,000 servings.

Tobacco was a big trade item as well. With the Union Blockade in place, the Confederates weren't able to get it easily. Thus the trading. I've read about acorn, rye, and other types of grain being brewed as coffee. Has anybody tried this?

**Rick** · 02-17-2015, 04:44 PM

Tobacco was grown in the south with only a few of northern states able to grow it and most of them had narrow belts where it would grow. Kentucky being the one exception. Southern Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri all grew tobacco but not in abundance. Despite repeated calls by the Confederate Congress and even passing a resolution for farmers to switch to food crops to supply the war effort many farmers did not and continued to grow tobacco. It was a trade item for the CSA troops to gain sugar and coffee.

**Zack** · 02-17-2015, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

Tobacco was grown in the south with only a few of northern states able to grow it and most of them had narrow belts where it would grow. Kentucky being the one exception. Southern Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri all grew tobacco but not in abundance. Despite repeated calls by the Confederate Congress and even passing a resolution for farmers to switch to food crops to supply the war effort many farmers did not and continued to grow tobacco. It was a trade item for the CSA troops to gain sugar and coffee.

Yes, the Union Blockade did a real number on the Confederacy's ability to import and export goods with the Europeans. That's one reason why the Battle of Antietam was so important, it kept the major military powers in Europe out of the war...