Kel-Tec PMR-30

**cwlongshot** · 11-02-2014, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

You are not reading the same ballistics charts I am viewing!

I do not see .22mag performance surpassing either 9mm or 38 special power in any form, even in rifle loads.

Power is still computed by multiplying mass X velocity.

I posted the chart, it is there for anyone to do the computation in any caliber desired and eliminate the speculation.

I can read sure, what are YOU looking at?

I also did not say it beat the 9mm just that it was solidly into its energy range. But the 22mag from a rifle DOES BEAT ALL 38SPL LOADS! (I did not say +p loads)

32 ACP is roughly 150FPE at muzzle
380 is roughly 200FPE at the muzzle
9mm is roughly 300 FPE at the muzzle.
All are averages and some loadings do lil better while others don't even do this well.

The 22mag from a rifle is 300+ FPE From a pistol its gonna be all over the 1&2" barrels loose allot of energy.

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CW

**kyratshooter** · 11-02-2014, 10:42 PM

You are definitely not looking at the same ballistics charts that I am.

Or you are comparing 22 mag rifle ballistics to 9mm/38 pistol ballistics.

**natertot** · 11-03-2014, 05:56 AM

.22mag is readily available in may area and runs about $15-$18 per a box of 50. I can get 9mm and .380 for the same price. A few dollars more and I can get .40 and .38spl.

The problem with .22mag in a pistol is that it is designed for rifle. Many notice the "fireball" of .22mag out of a pistol and that is because the bullet leaves the barrel before all the powder burns. This causes the bullet to not achieve full velocity and therefore any .22mag ballistics you see are drastically reduced.

I'm not saying don't get the PMR 30. We all have our toys. Mine is a Heritage Rough Rider with .22 and .22mag cylinders. I just consider .22mag pistols to be a toy more than a tool. .22LR rifles or pistols as well, for that matter. To each their own, though.

**Phaedrus** · 11-03-2014, 06:30 AM

I've got a fairly good pile of .22 mag ammo but I've never had a .22 mag! The ammo belonged to my dad and when he passed I got the bulk of his ammo and reloading gear.

**cwlongshot** · 11-03-2014, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

You are definitely not looking at the same ballistics charts that I am.

Or you are comparing 22 mag rifle ballistics to 9mm/38 pistol ballistics.

I have said RIFLE from my first post... as Natertot just said, the 22mag is a RIFLE ROUND!!!

Originally Posted by cwlongshot

I can read sure, what are YOU looking at? I also did not say it beat the 9mm just that it was solidly into its energy range. But the 22mag from a rifle DOES BEAT ALL 38SPL LOADS! (I did not say +p loads)

32 ACP is roughly 150FPE at muzzle
380 is roughly 200FPE at the muzzle
9mm is roughly 300 FPE at the muzzle.
All are averages and some loadings do lil better while others don't even do this well.

The 22mag from a rifle is 300+ FPE From a pistol its gonna be all over the 1&2" barrels loose allot of energy.

CW

Originally Posted by cwlongshot

Here is my thoughts.

1) Going back approx. 30 months, The 22Mag has NOT been as scarce here. I have purchased exactly three boxes of 22LR. one 500rnd brick of CCI STD, one box of Win 333 and one box of CCI Tray Landry. That's 1155 rounds. I look everywhere and do so frequently. In the same time frame, I have lost count of the WMR, but its probably about twice the 1155 number. Last month I was able to but 1000 and last week 700 rounds. Most shops limit us to two boxes USUALLY they are 50rnd 22Mag boxes.

2) Well that depends... The prices we all paid three years ago are GONE. BUT should settle at about 15-20% higher then they where then. I have still been able to buy WMR at under 12$ a box. ($40 for 200 = $10ea) Back three years ago that same CCI Maxi mag was 12$ a box. Speaking of LR... I was buying Rem Goldens for 12-14$ a brick, now they are found for about $20-25 for 525rnd boxes... You can do that math.

3) In a rifle, some of the 22 magnum carry TWICE the energy of the LR at the muzzle. : Its over 300FPE, that's solid into 9MM territory. Surpassing the 32, 380 and 38 Spl loads by a healthy margin. Out of a Pistol, the LR is a bit more efficient, but as mentioned above, the Magnum uses a much superior jacketed bullet.
CW

Again, just to be clear. YES I am comparing the 22mag FROM A RIFLE to the pistol caliber I have listed.

CW

**natertot** · 11-04-2014, 01:19 AM

Just for proper comparison, does anyone have the info of .22mag from a pistol? That would seem appropriate since we are talking about .22mag from a pistol and not a rifle. Unless there is a PMR-30 rifle that I am not aware of?

**Rick** · 11-04-2014, 07:43 AM

Fellahs, I doubt it matters much one way or the other. Let's just agree to disagree on this one shall we? I like .22 mag. I don't care if .22 mag is as good 9mm or how many fps it travels. I doubt a rabbit would either. You're both right. Let's leave it at that. Thanks.

**natertot** · 11-04-2014, 09:31 AM

I did find a source that talks about .22mag energy, comparing rifle to a 6.5 inch barrel out of a revolver. A 6.5 inch barrel achieved about half the energy as a rifle. This surpasses .22lr, .25acp, and is pretty close to equally .32acp energy wise. Once again, this is out of a 6.5inch barrel. The Kel-Tec PMR-30 has a 4.3 inch barrel. This would lead me to believe that .22mag out of the PMR-30 is on par with .22lr and .25acp pistols which, as I said before, pretty much qualifies it more as a toy than a tool.

**natertot** · 11-04-2014, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

Fellahs, I doubt it matters much one way or the other. Let's just agree to disagree on this one shall we? I like .22 mag. I don't care if .22 mag is as good 9mm or how many fps it travels. I doubt a rabbit would either. You're both right. Let's leave it at that. Thanks.

Sorry, just saw this after my last post. Didn't mean to offend.

**Rick** · 11-04-2014, 10:05 AM

No offense taken. It just seems we have a disagreement on terms/numbers/whatever that's not going anywhere. I don't have a problem with folks discussing the pros and cons but it didn't seem to be going anywhere other than finger pointing.

**kyratshooter** · 11-04-2014, 11:10 AM

Correct Rick.

I will agree to disagree as long as you admit I am right!

This is physics, not politics or a salsa taste test!

**natertot** · 11-04-2014, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

No offense taken. It just seems we have a disagreement on terms/numbers/whatever that's not going anywhere. I don't have a problem with folks discussing the pros and cons but it didn't seem to be going anywhere other than finger pointing.

Sorry, wasn't trying to finger point. As I said in post #23, if someone want's one then they should get it. I also said in the same post that I have a .22mag pistol of another variety so I am not against owning a .22mag pistol at all. I just don't want folks to think that a .22mag pistol should be something to get for protection over common defensive calibers because the capability simply isn't there. Of course .22mag pistol is better than nothing, just not as great .32acp, .380acp, 9mm, and .38 spl. Only pointing out that the performance from a .22mag pistol will be about the same as .22lr and .25acp so when people try it, they aren't too disappointed.

In summary, just trying to put out facts for sound informational purposes. I'll be silent now.

**cwlongshot** · 11-07-2014, 07:11 PM

No worries here too. Its all good.

I think this link was offered before... http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html But here it is again.

I brought RIFLE into it as flash was mentioned and pistol rifle and 22 mag. The 22 Magnum is a RIFLE round. Recently short barrel offerings have been offered in the 22MAG. The 22mag looses quite a bit in REAL short barrels like the 1-2" lengths. But once you get to say 4" the performance on tap improves nicely.

IMHO the 22mag isn't a great PP caliber more because its a rimfire than because of its ballistics. SOME of that "worry" goes away if you have a revolver as a misfire is a additional trigger pull away where in a SA, its tap, rack and HOPEFULLY roll.

CW