Ginseng - Who to sell to?

**Oddmott** · 09-02-2014, 02:08 PM

So, I've been contemplating growing ginseng naturally/wildly (ie: planted in its natural habitat and left to mature 7-12 years with no aid or interference).

In Ontario Canada it is illegal to harvest and sell wild ginseng, however, it is legal to plant and raise commercially purchased ginseng seeds and sell the harvested roots. By all credible accounts, commercial ginseng - when raised in this manner - is indistinguishable from wild ginseng by all but the worlds' greatest ginseng experts.

To be honest, i've done more than think about it... I've invested in 5000 insured ginseng seeds. I am not personally familiar with these plants or the best way to raise them. I hear that they're really in demand in the US, even spawning TV shows and murderous turf wars and poaching battles, but up here it's essentially an ignored crop, despite Ontario Ginseng being considered some of the best in the world.

I'm willing to just take a shot and plant them - i have a horticulturalist/herbalist lined up to help with eventual harvesting & drying - but i'm totally unsure of who you sell these roots to once they're ready?

I've seen farmer market vendors selling choice roots for incredible amounts, but they only move 1 or 2 plants per year, not able to handle the 1500 plants per year x 2 years I'd expect to get from my crop.

Any suggestions? I'd imagine that if i want to sell to a larger corp in the agri-business there's all sorts of hoops i'd have to jump through, right?

**randyt** · 09-02-2014, 04:42 PM

Some fur buyers also buy ginseng. You might find a buyer in the back pages of the magazine Fur-Fish-Game.

**hunter63** · 09-02-2014, 04:50 PM

You said you bought some seed....I would start with them....or
http://www.wildgrown.com/index.php/B...lling-Ginseng/

Or

http://ginsengontario.com/industry-information/

**nell67** · 09-02-2014, 07:31 PM

I would sow seed for at least the next 4-5 years, until the plants from the first batch of seed have matured enough to drop seed a couple of years. The law here in Indiana is that you can not harvest any plant that has not produced seed, you can not remove any seed from the area in which the plant was harvested, and you can use NOTHING but your FINGER to push/sow the seed into the ground. You also can not hunt ginseng until September 1st and only until Dec 31st each year.

When I was a kid you could hunt it as soon as it came up, and sell it at any time. Not any more.

Indiana's ginseng laws : http://www.in.gov/dnr/naturepreserve.../ginseng99.pdf

**hunter63** · 09-02-2014, 07:39 PM

I can recall hiking and camping in Devil Lake State in Wisconsin.

While hike/climbing the bluffs coming across string all over the woods.
Seems the 'sang" hunters woud take an old baseball, that the cover off, put in small can on their belt, plastic or metal cover....and tie it off then let it roll around and unravel as the scrounged the ridges....they could tell where they had looking because of the string.

Was told the string rotted pretty fast.

**nell67** · 09-02-2014, 08:00 PM

LOL I hunted with my grandfather from the time I was 5 or 6 years old, he was cherokee Indian, and never, ever got lost in the woods, and could out 'sang anyone I have meet since. Way back then, we took a can of vienna sausages or potted meat with us but never carried anything to drink, since the woods had many creeks, we would simply lay on our stomachs and drink from the creeks. Can't do that anymore either........

**Oddmott** · 09-03-2014, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by hunter63

You said you bought some seed....I would start with them....or
http://www.wildgrown.com/index.php/B...lling-Ginseng/

Or

http://ginsengontario.com/industry-information/

The seed sellers aren't buyers, nor do they happen to be involved with any buyers. They're just really great horticulturalists who sell seeds.

That second link has been updated recently though. It now provides a detailed list of buyers and that's exactly what i was looking for.

Reading deeper into that site's info tells you that the bottom of the market could drop out at any time, if the Chinese are successful at growing their own domestic production to the point they don't need NA grown ginseng any more. If interested parties didn't get theirs planted immediately, they may be SOL in 5-10 years.

**nell67** · 09-03-2014, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Oddmott

The seed sellers aren't buyers, nor do they happen to be involved with any buyers. They're just really great horticulturalists who sell seeds.

That second link has been updated recently though. It now provides a detailed list of buyers and that's exactly what i was looking for.

Reading deeper into that site's info tells you that the bottom of the market could drop out at any time, if the Chinese are successful at growing their own domestic production to the point they don't need NA grown ginseng any more. If interested parties didn't get theirs planted immediately, they may be SOL in 5-10 years.

China will never be able to supply the entire world with ginseng, and Americans don't want chinese ginseng.

**Oddmott** · 09-03-2014, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by nell67

China will never be able to supply the entire world with ginseng, and Americans don't want chinese ginseng.

Read deeper, China is acquiring N.A. (specifically Ontario) ginseng and attempting to grow it so the end product is the same.

And 90% of the world's ginseng products are made in China. They import good ginseng, mix it with their crappier ginseng to improve profits, package it into teas and powders and whatnot and ship it back here where the N.A. customers eat it up.

**LowKey** · 09-03-2014, 07:46 PM

Gonna be in for some sorry disappointment if those seeds are dried out.
Have they been pre-stratified?
Ginseng gets planted in the fall, goes through one winter, then spring, then summer, another fall and winter before they even germinate the second spring. They are one of the hardest plants to start from seed (I did research on them back in my college days and in my first job after college.)
No way your 5000 seeds will get through all that. We got about 25% after the 2 year wait in all our trials, excluding those we force stratified. Didn't get those to germinate at all.

As for buyers, most have to be registered. I have no idea how it works in Canada. In the US you can contact your specific state's forestry service. They should be able to direct you to a licensed buyer. I'm willing to bet you are going to need some kind of permit to sell to anyone in the States. Not to mention customs and whatnot.

**hunter63** · 09-03-2014, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Oddmott

The seed sellers aren't buyers, nor do they happen to be involved with any buyers. They're just really great horticulturalists who sell seeds.

That second link has been updated recently though. It now provides a detailed list of buyers and that's exactly what i was looking for.

Reading deeper into that site's info tells you that the bottom of the market could drop out at any time, if the Chinese are successful at growing their own domestic production to the point they don't need NA grown ginseng any more. If interested parties didn't get theirs planted immediately, they may be SOL in 5-10 years.

Maybe it's just me.......but something about this doesn't ring true.
Why would they just sell seeds and not buy the product?
Gotta be some expensive seeds....roots sell for a lot of money....they need plants to get seeds.....Hummmm
Then add on the "get'em now before the market goes bust?

Used to be field around that had fabric covers to shade the commercial sang.....haven't seen them for a few years either.

**nell67** · 09-04-2014, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by hunter63

Maybe it's just me.......but something about this doesn't ring true.
Why would they just sell seeds and not buy the product?
Gotta be some expensive seeds....roots sell for a lot of money....they need plants to get seeds.....Hummmm
Then add on the "get'em now before the market goes bust?

Used to be field around that had fabric covers to shade the commercial sang.....haven't seen them for a few years either.

Used to have a grower here too, but the buyer here can spot farmed ginseng from wild grown pretty easily, by the distance between the rings on the roots. farmed roots grow faster, causing a larger gap between the root rings, which they say means the root is not as potent as wild grown.

**Oddmott** · 09-04-2014, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by LowKey

Gonna be in for some sorry disappointment if those seeds are dried out.
Have they been pre-stratified?
...
No way your 5000 seeds will get through all that. We got about 25% after the 2 year wait in all our trials, excluding those we force stratified. Didn't get those to germinate at all.

To clarify, my seeds being "insured" simply means that a) i can pick them up out of storage any time that suits me - there'll always be some on hand to cover my order. And b) if an unacceptable amount (55%+) of them do not survive to grow in proper conditions, the seller will make good by providing me the difference; provided that after they've reviewed my property they determine i didn't plant the ginseng where it has no business being.

**Oddmott** · 09-04-2014, 01:59 PM

Points addressed within quote

Originally Posted by hunter63

Maybe it's just me.......but something about this doesn't ring true.
Why would they just sell seeds and not buy the product?

Not sure how things are done around you, but up here there are tons of product sellers who want nothing to do with purchasing goods back. My source of honey bee nucs doesn't go around buying other people's honey. The guy i lease stud bulls from doesn't buy my beef.

Gotta be some expensive seeds....roots sell for a lot of money....they need plants to get seeds.....Hummmm

As far as seeds go, they were, very. But still nothing compared to the payout IF enough survive and IF a suitable buyer can be found.

Then add on the "get'em now before the market goes bust?

This wasn't from my seller. This was from the link you provided. Part of the website delved into China's efforts to poach our ginseng to reduce their dependency on foreign growers. If they managed to do so, the market would be bust in NA.

**hunter63** · 09-04-2014, 02:18 PM

I do wish you luck on the project....any kind of farming is a gamble, and when your target is still several years away...maybe more so.

It's those in the know have their contacts....not saying the seed growers buy back the product, just put you in contact with buyers.

Just trying to help ya out.

So, again, good luck.......

**Oddmott** · 09-04-2014, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by hunter63

I do wish you luck on the project....any kind of farming is a gamble, and when your target is still several years away...maybe more so.

It's those in the know have their contacts....not saying the seed growers buy back the product, just put you in contact with buyers.

Just trying to help ya out.

So, again, good luck.......

Ahh, i get you. The seed source is a sort of co-op between University of Ottawa, Kemptville College and a bunch of local horticulturalists that work with the Ottawa area experimental farms. A lot of stuff going on with the group, but their efforts & focus are more on getting people involved in growing and supporting them... moreso than helping them sell the end product. I'm sure a few of them are very well connected, but i've only ever spoken with a few of their volunteer staffers... quite low on the totem i suspect.

The way i look at it is, it's forested land i don't use for anything other than deer and turkey hunting. At the very least, i'll make my money back and learn something. At the very most - assuming it grows well and grows to have the properties of wild ginseng more than commercial ginseng - i'll make a small fortune.

I've just been trying to figure out why more people aren't involved in it and aside from the red tape you have to wade through any time you try to sell anything legally... i can't find the catch.

**LowKey** · 09-04-2014, 06:46 PM

The catch will be in investment of time and energy. Not sure how they are going to assess whether or not you planted your seeds correctly. Especially if you plan on broadcasting them through the woods. It takes 2 years of strat for them just to germinate. We used to cage the seed flats so the rodents wouldn't dig them up in winter. Then we caged the seedlings to avoid them getting picked out by the birds. Then we potted them up and kept them in protected beds. Then the spring of the 4th year they were to go out in the prepared areas (this was a large protected woodland - that wasn't immune to poaching.) They don't much like being transplanted either. They sure as heck don't like to be rootbound. You will have uncompensated losses.

BTW, deer will eat ginseng.
Dunno about turkeys. I never saw wild turkeys in this state until about 10 years ago. Now they're rampant.

Don't assume the volunteers are low on the totem pole. The ladies who volunteered at the place I worked were VERY well connected, at least in terms of societal status. And they knew their stuff when it came to the plants we worked with. I wouldn't be surprised if the volunteers were as knowledgeable on the subject of their volunteerism as the paid help.

**Old GI** · 09-04-2014, 07:46 PM

You can add to your marketing strategy by placing an ad in Golf Digest next to the Viagra ads for those FOGs who can't get a prescription.

**Oddmott** · 09-05-2014, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by LowKey

The catch will be in investment of time and energy. Not sure how they are going to assess whether or not you planted your seeds correctly. Especially if you plan on broadcasting them through the woods. It takes 2 years of strat for them just to germinate. We used to cage the seed flats so the rodents wouldn't dig them up in winter. Then we caged the seedlings to avoid them getting picked out by the birds. Then we potted them up and kept them in protected beds. Then the spring of the 4th year they were to go out in the prepared areas (this was a large protected woodland - that wasn't immune to poaching.) They don't much like being transplanted either. They sure as heck don't like to be rootbound. You will have uncompensated losses.

BTW, deer will eat ginseng.
Dunno about turkeys. I never saw wild turkeys in this state until about 10 years ago. Now they're rampant.

Turkeys will eat everything and anything... they're goats with feathers... so i'm assuming the ginseng would be at risk from them.

What other birds were you worried about to justify the caging? We don't have an abundance of birds despite having tons of food for them. Likely due to our colder winters.