Black Powder Rifles and The Apocalypse

[pgvoutdoors]

OK, Apocalyptic scenarios are not my thing but bare with me. Imagine a situation that leaves you out of ammo for your firearm. (This applies to people that do not live on top of an ammo dump.) You also own a black powder rifle but you have used all of your powder. Now you have come across some shotgun shells and a few rifle rounds, but none that will work in your firearm. Questions: Could the gun powder be adapted to be used in your black powder rifle? Would it be easier to scrounge the ingredients to make black powder? Could you make bullets when needed? Remember, times have been hard for a long time, the availability of anything for firearms is scarce.

[alaskabushman]

Hmmm, good question. Of course whenever you suggest shooting smokeless powder in a black powder gun there is usually only one type of advice...DONT DO IT!
In a survival situation your main purpose is just that, to survive. Risking injury on the possibility of a couple shots out of your gun would not really be worth it. If times have been hard for a while, shouldn't your hunter/gather skills have improved to the point you don't really need a loud noisy gun with just a couple shots?
Making blackpowder is a tedious and pretty exacting process, getting the right ratio of charcoal, saltpeter and sulfur is not always easy without the proper recipes. Unless you live next to a volcano or in Yellowstone finding natural deposits of sulfur are very slim. Which means you have to boil down animal (or human) feces in order to get it. Such an unsanitary practice could also kill you in a survival situation.

To answer your question though, I think you MAYBE could get away with smokeless powder in a smoke pole. The issue I see here is how to measure the powder. As a reloader I know the difference of just a grain or two can mean the difference between happy shooting and a ruined gun at best, death at worst. As a black powder shooter I also know that black powder is much more forgiving. You can pretty much just dump an approximate amount of powder down the barrel and it will work.
If we're talking modern muzzle loader, then If you were SUPER careful you might pull it off. If you had great-great-great grandpas squirrel gun you would probably blow it up since the steel would be much lower quality and strength.

Personally I don't think the risk would be worth the minor gains of a couple shots, I would say an improvised weapon would be a much better choice. A bow, spear or sling with a bit of practice can be effective. Even a crossbow would be better.
Best of all set traps.

[hunter63]

Been doing a little research on this....and form some reason I can't play you tube vides now.

I do have to agree w/ABM .... "don't" ...not worth it and you would still need a primer of some sort.

I checking further there seems to be a different opinion if you are talking BP cartridge or muzzle loaders.

Some discussion
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/thre...er-ammo.79346/

[pgvoutdoors]

Good responses, please continue the comments. I feel this might be something people may resort to for hunting or self defense.

[alaskabushman]

Good responses, please continue the comments. I feel this might be something people may resort to for hunting or self defense.

For hunting maybe, but self defense against more than one assailant with a muzzleloader would not be much of a resistance.

You would be better off cramming that thing full of smokeless powder, letting them "accidentally" disarm you and hope they try to shoot you with it! okay maybe not the greatest idea...

[hunter63]

I think I would practice up with a spear, bow or atlatl,.....they were the standard hunting tools for a whole lot longer than any kind of firearm.

Now for grins....shot gun powder and pistol powders can be interchanged...still have that nasty primer problem.
So to me, flintlocks make the most sense....but then you will need Black Powder.

[kyratshooter]

OK, Apocalyptic scenarios are not my thing but bare with me. Imagine a situation that leaves you out of ammo for your firearm. (This applies to people that do not live on top of an ammo dump.) You also own a black powder rifle but you have used all of your powder. Now you have come across some shotgun shells and a few rifle rounds, but none that will work in your firearm. Questions: Could the gun powder be adapted to be used in your black powder rifle? Would it be easier to scrounge the ingredients to make black powder? Could you make bullets when needed? Remember, times have been hard for a long time, the availability of anything for firearms is scarce.

I do not consider this an apocalyptic scenario, I consider it the scenario of a nation under strict gun and/or ammunition control.

I have already abandoned the .22lr in favor of .22 caliber reloadable centerfire cartridges using cast lead and shotgun powders as propellants in real time, today.

The OP indicates that you have another firearm and a BP rifle.

I am going to offer a secondary opinion.

Forget using the smokeless shells in the BP gun. I have seen the results of that first hand. Of course I only saw the ones that blew up and not the ones that got away with it! The ones I did see were totaled and usually injured the shooter and included a name change like One Eyed Joe or Stubby.

Instead, consider using the primers, powder and lead to reload cases for the rifle you have (most reloaders already own bullet pullers and the rest of the gear needed), or improvising a gun to shoot the shotgun shells you have found. (Slam-gun instructions are on You-tube.)

BP will easily be made from commercial stump dissolver, home made charcoal and sulfur from the garden center. All kinds of instructions on the internet and in any old style hard copy encyclopedia.

[crashdive123]

Meh. That's why I prepare now.

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[Rick]

Good thing you stopped smoking. Whew.

[hunter63]

So you have a cannon?

[Rick]

Wait. I thought everyone had a cannon. Don't tell me they outlawed those in Wisconsin too?

[crashdive123]

So you have a cannon?

As a matter of fact.....

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[hunter63]

Wait. I thought everyone had a cannon. Don't tell me they outlawed those in Wisconsin too?

Yeah, we all do have them in Wisconsin...was wondering about Florida....Mine shoot Coors "Silver Bullet" alum. cans full of cement.....

We use they for turkey hunting....3 oz BP and about a pound of #4 shot.....covers the whole ridge with one shot.

[Rick]

Now I'll bet that gets confusing.

"Duck!"

"Wait. I thought we were hunting turkey."

Crash, there's nothing worse than trying to figure out which weapon you want to shoot on any given day.

"Lemme see. Do I want to set of 28? Nay, maybe 29.

[hunter63]

More like...."Fire in the Hole"..spssst...KaaaBoooom.

Need to find a caisson to carry it.

[Rick]

Or a peon. Whichever.

[kyratshooter]

Deleted smart-A post including quote.

[slipshift]

Mossberg advertises a BP rifle that can handle smokeless powder, any other muzzleloader is likely to blow. It wouldn't help to reduce the charge, the pressure would be too much, especially since smokeless powder has a much faster pressure spike. The steel in even modern muzzleloaders can't handle it. Check out a black powder forum, this question come up a lot, often with gristly pictures.

[hunter63]

It's just best to not do it........
Trick is to have a Handi Rifle or shotgun barrels to handle any possible load you come across.......
So the minimum you should have is .22, .223. 30-30, 308, 30-06, .357, .44. 45 lc.....and maybe a .7.62 X 39....being the most popular in rifle and pistol calibers.....and of course 12ga. 20 ag, 410 in shot gun.

Scrounge some ammo,.... switch barrels,..... back in business.

[Lamewolf]

Smokeless powder + muzzleloaders can equal disaster ! Smokeless powders generate greater pressures than blackpowder does in most cases. But I hear there are modern muzzleloaders designed for certain smokeless powders now. General rule though is don't do it.