Grylls or Mears?

[Endworld Guy]

Originally Posted by Endworld Guy
The moral? - Weakening any group (whether a survival group or a club etc) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky..

Nonsense....

I've seen good, popular respected members walk out of places because the mods are overbearing control freaks.
For example earlier this month a bunch of guys (including me) left a flight sim forum because a mod got his kicks out of bullying people, especially green newcomers, and locking their threads.
We tactfully suggested he was being too bossy, to which he replied something like-"I don't care what members think, I'm the mod around here"
So we walked because that was just bad leadership plain and simple, and his forum is the weaker for it.

[crashdive123]

pfffffffft What's this talk of other forums?

[Sarge47]

Originally Posted by Endworld Guy
The moral? - Weakening any group (whether a survival group or a club etc) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky..



I've seen good, popular respected members walk out of places because the mods are overbearing control freaks.
For example earlier this month a bunch of guys (including me) left a flight sim forum because a mod got his kicks out of bullying people, especially green newcomers, and locking their threads.
We tactfully suggested he was being too bossy, to which he replied something like-"I don't care what members think, I'm the mod around here"
So we walked because that was just bad leadership plain and simple, and his forum is the weaker for it.

Hmm, first you called it a club and now you're calling it a forum...curious.

Yes, those situations DO occur, but that's not EVERY situation, so to say that "Weakening any group (weather a survival group or a club, etc.) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky..." is not always true. Let's look at this forum for example. Yes I'm a Mod, as is Rick & Crashdive. So let's say that I decide that a member has to go and I just ban him outright. That person still has a chance to come back on, either by protest, or even better, apologize for any possible wrong doing and ask to be let back in. If they wish to protest they can e-mail the owner, Chris, and present their case. If Chris agrees, then he can override the mods and bring that person back...or he can contact us discreetly and discuss it. However, some members get angry at the mods, ie., the "leadership" as it were, and call us names like "Nazi," "control freaks," etc., and leave on their own. Sometimes they outright ask to be banned. Does all of this weaken this site? No, it's stronger than ever, especially since those that didn't fit in, or want to fit in are gone. The good news here is that you are entitled to your opinion and are free to discuss it willingly without fear of being banned. Here in "the Colonies," we believe in "Free Speech," too a certain extent.(flaming and/or profanity are not allowed.)

Now, I don't know about that "club" you belonged to, but if I didn't like the leadership I would have left as well, but only if I didn't have any other options. Was there another leader? Oh, that's right, you said that you were "2nd in command." Was this "leader" the owner or founder of the club or was there someone above him? If there was that's who I would have gone to next to discuss it. That person may decide that he'd rather replace the leader than lose members. If there wasn't anybody else then I would have left too. But ONLY because I didn't wish to stay. However there may be a similar club losing members where they simply disagree with the leadership for different reasons and the leader has to follow rules already set in place or be replaced by someone who will, so they "stick to their guns" and don't give ground. Members leave as a result.(shrugging) Too bad, "don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya" is my motto when that happens.

Here's one last analogy, let's say that I was badly mistreated by somebody form your country, so I go around saying that "All people from England are bad." Is that correct? No, judging everybody by the actions of one is just as wrong as what you're talking about. That's what I'm reading in your post, that you are making a blanket statement about every other club based upon your personal experience with one, if not a few others. Do you see my point?
So there's my "buck two-fifty."

[hunter63]

Why am I feeling the plane tilting? ....just a tad, just a tad, but tilting never the less.......
Never mind.

Culling the herd, insures the weakest and slowest get taken out insuring the herd, (Group) grows stronger.

[Endworld Guy]

I know there are good forums/clubs/websites around (such as this one), and there are also bad ones around; the only reason i brought up the subject is because it provides a fun discussion about leadership for us survivalists, especially as good leadership would be vital in a real-world "survive or die" situation..

Anyway lets forget forums! Here's a neat 8-minute clip where the newly-arrived young agricultural expert is being his usual pain-in-the *** self, pointing with his finger calling the rest of the group "stupid" etc, and during the discussion it turns out his previous group failed because of low morale caused by him.
In the end everybody decides to carry on muddling through and keep their high morale and to ignore him, so he leaves.
The message is clear- having a fantastic expert in a group may sound fine on paper, but if his manner is rude, offensive and causes low morale he's no use to anybody-

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CLIP- http://youtu.be/Gmiacxy18fU

[Rick]

It sort of looks like he's instructing the group on the proper etiquette of gagging yourself. I was always taught...left hand on the thigh...two fingers. You can use one finger if the meeting is informal or your whole hand if you are alone.

[Sarge47]

Isn't that a re-run of "To Sir With Love?" Where's Sidney Portiere?

Anyway, I would NEVER say that any discussion about survival is fun. Survival is about life or death...period...end of paragraph!

[Endworld Guy]

Isn't that a re-run of "To Sir With Love?" Where's Sidney Portiere?
Anyway, I would NEVER say that any discussion about survival is fun. Survival is about life or death...period...end of paragraph!

Good point, which brings up the question:- who would we rather be with in a survival situation, somebody with a sense of humour or somebody without one?..

[Sarge47]

Good point, which brings up the question:- who would we rather be with in a survival situation, somebody with a sense of humour or somebody without one?..

Hopefully one who brung matches and a compass. As for your question, it's pretty broad, so it would depend on what type of sense of humor the person had as well as what the situation is. Obviously a positive attitude is a big requirement for Survival, and if one can kid about it then it's better for all. This was demonstrated between Cody Lundin and David Canterbury in "Dual Survival." (which, BTW, is being shown in a marathon on Discovery as I type...must be preparing for Season 3!) However, as I mentioned earlier, it would also depend on the situation. I don't think anybody was telling jokes during 9-1-1 here in the states the day they brought down the World Trade Center, yet many people DID survive! The thing is, we usually have no choice in a true survival situation, you take what you get!

[Celticwarrior]

I'd take Mears or Canterbury or Les Stroud over Grylls any day. Much as I am often amused and horrified at his antics, I would hate to be the corpse that ends up being fished out of a ravine or from under a glacier because Bear said "Hey, you know what would be a good idea?". The guy is a dufus. Sure, he had SAS training, but most folks with his background wouldn't do his style of risky, often stupid, antics that might gain ratings but could lead to someone getting seriously killed if they tried it in real life. Just because someone has been through some military training doesn't make them an expert. He has charisma on camera and if you didn't know he had a complete safety and rescue team with him at all times, you might believe he is really some Rambo-esque hero. Mears and Stroud are really wilderness survival experts, because they go out and DO it, often by themselves, rather than take a whole team along with Wikipedia on their smartphones to tell you interesting tidbits about the local flora and fauna. Canterbury might not be the best choice, either, but he is a lot closer to my own personality than someone like Cody Lundin, who I find really preachy and annoying, and rather limited in his scope of survival training judging by the number of environments where he outright says "I'll have to rely on Dave here, since I don't have any experience in this environment" when making Dual Survival. If I want to live wild in the Arizona desert, I'd call Lundin. Otherwise I see no value in his hippy dogma.

[Endworld Guy]

I'd take Mears or Canterbury or Les Stroud over Grylls any day...The guy is a dufus....

Ha ha I had to google 'dufus' and I see it's 'a stupid goofy person'..
Interestingly I saw a brief youtube clip once where the interviewer asks Grylls what sort of temperament is needed to do the things he does in his shows, and Grylls replies "You have to be messed up".
So there we have it folks, Grylls admits he's messed up! (If I find the clip again i'll post a link)

[Warheit]

Much as it pains me I have to agree with Warheit...Bear knows where all the best Inns are! (running and ducking rotton eggs and tomatoes.)

That is not why I selected him. Sorry.

[Rick]

I had a lot of respect for Cantebury until he sliced his arm open and cauterized it with gun powder. And then there was the little scene where he dove on the gaiter and killed it. That falls squarely in the Grylls mind set to me and is someone to be avoided.

[crashdive123]

There are a lot of questions surrounding the "accuracy" of Dave C's military service. That is not to say his abilities are being called into question. While the Supreme Court may not have an issue with false military claims - I do.

[Sarge47]

So about 85% of the membership wouldn't trust Bear to teach anything about survival. I wouldn't trust him to take out the garbage. After watching some of the Ray Mears' You Tube vids I gotta say that he seems pretty level headed to me. I'd take him over BG any day of the week as well as even David C.! Also agreeing with CW about Cody. If it's Arizona give me Cody, just don't take my shoes, kay?

[Rick]

I'm with you, Crash. I understand the ruling but don't happen to agree with it. Then again, none of them called me to confer.

[crashdive123]

What I don't understand about the ruling, and I have not read it in its entirety yet.......It's against the law to say you are LEO if your are not. It's against the law to say you are an elected official if you are not. The court ruled that saying you were military or had earned medals that you did not earn does not constitute a crime unless it was used for personal gain and then it would be fraud. I understand that Congress will probably tweak the law to conform with the ruling. I think it could be argued (I guess it was) that Xavier Alvarez used his lie of being awarded the Medal of Honor and serving to advance his personal position (he was an elected official). http://www.metnews.com/articles/2012/alva062912.htm

The issue I have with Dave C. is that there are stories about a much exaggerated "resume" of military service, much of it being totally false. I have not requested information regarding it with a FOIA request, but it leaves doubts in my mind about him. An individual's integrity is pretty high on my list of important things.

[hunter63]

Y'all can hang out with those dudes.......I gotta go, some one waiting on me back at "The Hut"......
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[Rick]

Yes, Mrs. Hunter, he was here. The woman? Oh, she found his coat and hung it up. She just stuck around until he got here so no one else would take it. Attractive? Well....yes, now that you mention it she is attractive I suppose. But us wilderness guys don't usually notice that kind of thing. Now the hut, that's a fine looking hut.

[Endworld Guy]

..The issue I have with Dave C. is that there are stories about a much exaggerated "resume" of military service, much of it being totally false...An individual's integrity is pretty high on my list of important things.

Yeah if somebody's a Walter Mitty it means they prefer fantasy to reality, so in a real survival situation I doubt if they'd be able to handle the harsh reality and would crack up.
Regarding Grylls, I tend to think he's not as bad as some people make out, for example he regularly appears on talk shows even though he knows they're bound to ask him if his shows are faked, he doesn't duck the question, he goodnaturedly answers it by saying something about "that's how TV works" and goes on to say even Mears's shows are "faked" to some extent.
(And even in one of the highly-respected David Attenborough's shows, some polar bear cubs in a zoo were passed off as being in the wild)
In one of Gryll's shows he eats something nasty and throws up; "That's a first for me" he says, and leaves it in the show rather than insisting on having it edited out to preserve his hard man image.
In another show he actually weeps on camera when a friend goes temporarily missing in a powered hanglider during their attempt to fly over Everest, but leaves it in the show.
And another time he jumps out of a helicopter and swims to a small tropical island but later admits he can't survive there because of a lack of water and food, so he builds a raft and gets off.
So yeah I kinda like Grylls because of those little human touches, there's no hint of prima donna about him and he comes across as a regular guy with good integrity.

PS- I'm undecided about whether i'd like to be in a survival situation with Sarah Palin, i don't like most politicians but I hear she's a dab hand at hunting. Here on USS Stennis in 2009 she looks like she's itching to launch an airstrike against a moose herd-

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