Bowdrill fire

[Survival Guy 10]

Hex or hexagon is a six sided polygon and for lube i have heard everything from ear wax to like oil from your face but i know that YCC uses soap if im not mistaken

[mosquitomountainman]

In my experience the hand socket is the most difficult piece to find/make. That's why I try have one with me. Some people drill a tapered or rounded depression part way through their knife handle and use it for a socket. I test new woods by trying to indent them with a thumbnail. They should be soft enough to "dent" but not so soft that it indents deeply. It's not the greatest test for the inexperienced but it's the only way I know of. I don't know any quick, natural cordage that will stand up to the strain of bow/drill fire making. Rawhide or leather lacing would be my first choices. Good cordage is one of the things that are difficult to make quickly which is why I always carry some in my survival kit. Good tips so far on the lube. I rub the spindle end behind my ear for natural "oil." Natives usually carried the "makings" with them rather than depending upon finding the right materials where they stopped.

[payne]

But isn't pine resin a bit glue-ish? I see it as slowing down the thing more than anything. :O
And how should having a hex-shaped spindle prevent it from poping out?

EDIT: Just tried out once again without making any modifications. This time, I got to get kind of a lot of grey smoke. I kept going, but it never turned to yellow. Unfortunately, I couldn't increase the pressure on my socket because then the spindle would stop turning... and I hardly can increase the tension of the rope: it's probably already on the edge of exploding. =P
Then, I've tried the Egyptian method, but the results were bad: the rope would always **** up and create kind of a knot because it'd pass over itself, thus preventing me from spinning the spindle.
Didn't try the hex-shape yet, and I will not have the time to tonight. Maybe in 2-3 days. Now, I have to go study for my final exams. =/
Oh, and I tried to lubricate the socket's hole with ear wax, but I guess I just did not have enough because I took a shower this morning, and used Q-tips to clean my ears.

Keep the useful comments flowing in, though!

[hunter63]

................... It seldom works to just chuck a spindle in an electric drill and go at it. It's the stop/start/reverse direction sequence that makes it work. Otherwise you'd never be able to make a fire with a hand drill.

If your materials are good, proper technique is 90 percent of the battle.

Have fun!

Now that makes sense....Thanks for the tid-bit......

[mosquitomountainman]

But isn't pine resin a bit glue-ish? I see it as slowing down the thing more than anything. :O
And how should having a hex-shaped spindle prevent it from poping out?

EDIT: Just tried out once again without making any modifications. This time, I got to get kind of a lot of grey smoke. I kept going, but it never turned to yellow. Unfortunately, I couldn't increase the pressure on my socket because then the spindle would stop turning... and I hardly can increase the tension of the rope: it's probably already on the edge of exploding. =P
Then, I've tried the Egyptian method, but the results were bad: the rope would always **** up and create kind of a knot because it'd pass over itself, thus preventing me from spinning the spindle.
Didn't try the hex-shape yet, and I will not have the time to tonight. Maybe in 2-3 days. Now, I have to go study for my final exams. =/
Oh, and I tried to lubricate the socket's hole with ear wax, but I guess I just did not have enough because I took a shower this morning, and used Q-tips to clean my ears.

Keep the useful comments flowing in, though!

With the Egyptian method it pays to use a larger string. I use paracord as a minimum size on it. It needs to be large enough to coil naturally. You may be tilting the bow up or down from horizontal. If you do that the cord will overlap itself and the increased friction will fray/break the string and also make it harder to keep your momentum. If your hand socket has too much friction you'll have to have the cord stretched very tight and/or really have to apply pressure to turn the spindle. Either condition will make the spindle pop out of the socket. What I've had happen to me is that as I bore down on the hand socket toward the final leg the friction in the hand socket increased, the string slipped and the spindle stopped. If I tightened up on the string the spindle kept flipping out of the socket. I had almost as much heat at the top of the spindle as at the bottom where it was in the fireboard. From your description you may be having the same problem. You need a better hand socket (harder material) or better lubrication. I've never used pine pitch or resin but the friction at the spindle would probably heat it up enough to keep it liquid and it would lubricate in that state.

Next time you try be sure to have someone check your technique. If you have no one who knows enough then do it in front of a large mirror and keep watch yourself. (Use a cookie sheet under everything to protect the floor and a good fan to get rid of the smoke.) Be sure your bow is level throughout your stroke. The string should not pass over itself at any time. Be sure your arm is braced against your leg so that the spindle is held vertically and not rocked back and forth. Keep the friction at the hand socket as low as possible. Cut the top to a point if need be. Keep trying! It took me a long time to get my first bow-drill fire. If there's anyone local to teach you find them and get their help. It's much easier to teach someone in person than in print.

Good luck on the finals!

[mosquitomountainman]

Now that makes sense....Thanks for the tid-bit......

Thanks. I learned it from John McPherson (Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills by John and Geri McPherson) last summer. They are some really cool and knowledgable people.

[payne]

Question: are there any easy ways to quickly obtain a decent fireboard in the wood? I kind of had a lot of luck to stumble upon mine, and I actually had to ask for a friend of mine to help me brake the thing... =/
And another one: is it a good idea to harden the wood of certain components of the kit by passing them over a fire?

[letslearntogether47]

Payne,
As this is your first time trying to get a bow drill fire.
I would suggest that you try with store bought materials.
I know that doesn't sound all that he-man wilderness.But when you get a fire,you'll know what pressure,time and perseverance it takes.
Just my 2 cents.

[hunter63]

Thanks. I learned it from John McPherson (Primitive Wilderness Living & Survival Skills by John and Geri McPherson) last summer. They are some really cool and knowledgable people.

Good reference, thanks for the reminder.

I do have and have read their book, or at least one of their books, mostly for advice on hide tanning.

If I remember correctly, the one I have, had a comment at the end of the book: If all else fails, get in your Suburban, and go home......LOL

BTW, The part about people carrying their "fixins" with them makes a lot of sense, just like today we would carry our ferro rods and tender.

I did find, while out on a 'walk what I, and several other knowledgeable artifact people, what we think may have been a stone, the top of a bow drill, (socket).

Pictured with it appears to be adz or ax head.

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Payne, hang in there, don't feel bad,I have not been able to constantly start fire with a bow drill, either
I do not "depend" on this method as a primary fire lighting method.

But I would, and will continue, to pursue this method, as well as many others, just because I want to be able to do it.

[rwc1969]

Pine resin works great as a lube.

Here's another tip from John and Geri's book, and the one that allowed me to get my first ever ember, using entirely self made materials, including cordage.

Before you attach the last end of the string to the bow, put a real good twist in it. It will help to prevent slippage.

My fireboards are usually sticks that are about 1-2" in diameter. I split them in half lengthwise and pick one.

If you want to eliminate the slippage and breakage of the string use paracord. I have started nearly 50 fires using the same piece of paracord, it may help to take that out of the equation to start.

I can now start a fire pretty much every try, but only if I have the right materials. I tested myself one time this winter, when we had near a foot of snow, windy and cold. I failed miserably! Besides the weather and heavy clothing creating issues I hadn't foreseen, I just plain didn't have the right materials. So, when you finally do get it, don't think that you'll be able to go out in winter with heavy boots and clothing and make it happen so easily.

[mosquitomountainman]

Hunter 63 - Cool find. I've used a rock before but never had one looking that good. I generally use a section of the backbone on a deer (marginal - too small) or elk (works best). (Get a section near the hips.) Drill a hole through the sides and wear it around your neck. Most people think it's cool (or that maybe you're a little, uhm ... odd?). I keep one in my BOB too.

[payne]

Before you attach the last end of the string to the bow, put a real good twist in it. It will help to prevent slippage.

Sorry to have to ask, but what do you mean by "a real good twist in it" ?
Also, do you have any tips to give me when it comes to making my own cordage? (I've never tried, nor informed myself about it much)

[hunter63]

Hunter 63 - Cool find. I've used a rock before but never had one looking that good. I generally use a section of the backbone on a deer (marginal - too small) or elk (works best). (Get a section near the hips.) Drill a hole through the sides and wear it around your neck. Most people think it's cool (or that maybe you're a little, uhm ... odd?). I keep one in my BOB too.

Cool part of the round rock is that it had definite wear marks inside, and show that it had been "worked" so that it fits your hand perfectly,... kind hard to do naturally, so the archaeologist at the local collage, (I have been hanging out with the local Archaeological Society) thinks that it indeed "Cultural" rather than "natural".
He will not say, for sure, that it is a top of a bow drill, LOL

Finding and wearing your socket is also a cool idea.

Sorry, Payne for sidetracking your thread.......................

[payne]

Sorry, Payne for sidetracking your thread.......................

May your soul perish in hell!

[rwc1969]

Tight as you can get it without it twisting over on itself again. I have some cordage making vids on my YT channel.

I made the cordage and then tried to start a fire with it.

Here's my epic fail with that dogbane cordage, just when I thought I knew it all too, lol.

http://youtu.be/L4BFDpdUw94

[your_comforting_company]

I tried paracord on my bow and it only lasted for 3 fires before it broke. The outer sheath seems to be the problem with using paracord. Unless you are VERY good at making natural cordage, buy rope from the hardware store. I have not made rope yet that can withstand very many attempts at firemaking. I carry my socket rock, which is a piece of limestone that has been pecked out with another harder stone. Since I have lye soap (that I made) in my bag also, I use that for lube; a small piece of your emergency candle, any animal fat, oily anything, pine needles.. anything that's slick works for lube, even phlegm. The point is to reduce friction at the bearing end so you can increase friction at the working end.

If your cordage is too tight, it will often cause the spindle to pop out too. Mostly this is attributed to slight shifts in position. You should have one foot on the ground, holding the hearth, the other knee is on the ground, and your butt is neither touching the ground or your feet. Bearing hand should be locked tight around your hearth leg (in my case left foot holds hearth and right knee props me up giving me a 'tripod' for stability).

I recommend picking up the book Wildfire: Fire Making Art by Russell Cutts. It explains all the elements very well.

If your cordage is binding on itself while spinning, you have the strings crossed. Insert your spindle the opposite direction (still with the right ends up and down) so that when you are in position, the cordage doesn't pass over itself. That's a pretty simple fix.

Knowing what wood you are using would be infinitely helpful in troubleshooting the problems here. Hardwoods are generally a no-no, even though I've forced fire out of several harder woods, like nandina. It doesn't take a great deal of botanical knowledge, but I think you need at least some. There are countless combinations that work, some better than others, and my favorite (I know I sound like a broken record) are yucca and black willow. Both very easy to identify, both usually very high in silica content.

[payne]

I'd like to reiterate a question: how should 'hex-shaped' spindle enhance performances?

[mosquitomountainman]

I'd like to reiterate a question: how should 'hex-shaped' spindle enhance performances?

It helps the string to grip the spindle. When you use a round spindle it gets slick where the string rides and then the string starts to slip. I've also roughed up that area with a knife but the hex shape is a better way of doing it.

[payne]

Okay, thanks.

Other question: when am I supposed to know when I should try to get an ember with a new hole on the fireboard? Should I try to simply use one as deep as possible, or are there some weird rules?

[your_comforting_company]

I use them as deep as they will go and still operate.
if the hearth is 1/2" thick, I'll go almost to the bottom. If yours is real thick it'll probably reach a point it starts to hang up. you'll know when it's time to start a new one.