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Thread: Trampled on Black friday

  1. #21
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    I agree with crash. I have a hard time blaming the stores, for people not knowing how to act.

    Justin....isn't blaming the stores, the same as blaming Beer companies for people getting drunk.....or gun companies, for people getting shot........or keyboard makers, for mis-spelled words??? For gods sake, when will people ever take responsibility for their actions???

    Batch....I can't decide whether or not to agree with your point. I can see both sides. I see your point, but at the same time, I think it's kinda like a bad part of town. Town officials should clean it up, and make it safe....but until they do, I stay the heck out of that part of town.
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  2. #22
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    Hmm,, Interesting,,

    The family of Jdimytai Damour, the 34-year-old man who was trampled to death Nov. 28 in a Long Island Wal-Mart, is suing Wal-Mart for failing to provide adequate security and for creating a “crowd craze” through its promotions.

    Damour was a temporary Wal-Mart employee who was working to control the crowd lined up early that morning for Wal-Mart’s “Black Friday” discounts. Shortly after the store’s scheduled 5:00 a.m. opening, an estimated 2,000 shoppers rushed into the store, trampling Damour and crushing him to death. He was pronounced dead, likely of asphyxiation, at 6:03 a.m.

    Wal-Mart, like many retailers, holds special promotions on the day after Thanksgiving to mark the beginning of the holiday shopping season. Many retailers open early and offer discounts on a limited number of products, encouraging shoppers to line up outside the store before it opens and rush inside for deals.

    These Black Friday promotions, also known as “doorbusters,” have turned violent in the past, though the National Retail Federation told the Associated Press that Damour’s was the first-ever Black Friday death.

    The lawsuit, filed Wednesday in New York State Supreme Court in the Bronx, contends that Wal-Mart “engaged in specific marketing and advertising techniques to specifically attract a large crowd and create an environment of frenzy and mayhem and was otherwise careless, reckless and negligent,” according to the AP.

    It also states that Wal-Mart failed to provide enough security to handle the crowd. Damour, likely due to his 6-foot-5, 270-pound body, was given significant responsibility in controlling the crowd even though he had only worked at the store for a week and had no crowd-control experience.

    Nassau County Police Commissioner Lawrence Mulvey called the Black Friday scene a “recipe for disaster.” He said that, even though police had warned retailers two weeks before that they were responsible for providing adequate security and crowd control, “there were not adequate protocols” in place at Wal-Mart.

    Opinion & Analysis: Who’s to blame?


    Many writers, politicians and industry experts have blamed Wal-Mart management, and Black Friday promotions in general, for Damour’s death. Washington Post columnist Michelle Singletary holds Wal-Mart responsible for inciting the chaos. “Increasingly, these door-busting sales attract crazy crowds. And why are they crazy? Because they know the retailers often carry only a limited number of the sale items,” she writes.

    Burt Flickinger III of the retail marketing consultancy Strategic Resource Group argues that retailers should increase the supply of discount items in order to decrease competition among shoppers. He and his father unsuccessfully pushed for legislation in New York that would have required stores to carry ample supplies of heavily promoted items.

    Flickinger also suggested that stores hand out “deli-style” numbers to shoppers waiting in lines so that the need to race to an item is eliminated. An editorial in the Minneapolis Star Tribune also endorses this tactic, which has been used by retailers Target and Best Buy.

    “An employee works the line before the store’s opening, handing out the prized tickets to customers who have waited the longest,” writes the Star Tribune. “When the doors open, there’s no mad scramble to claim a doorbuster. Nor are there fights over whose it is—one common cause of Black Friday altercations.”

    Wal-Mart’s lack of security has also been blamed. New York City Councilman James Gennaro announced Monday that he was going to draft a “Doorbuster Bill” that would require retailers to hire security officers trained to control crowds for events like Black Friday.

    The National Retail Federation argues that legislation is unnecessary, telling Bloomberg news that the Wal-Mart incident “certainly is not representative of what is happening in other parts of the country.”

    Though Wal-Mart’s planning for Black Friday may have been lacking, no one has excused the actions of the crowd. Singletary writes that the shoppers “lost their humanity in the quest for a bargain,” while radio talk show host Mark Davis believes that the shoppers are entirely to blame for Damour’s death.

    “Low prices don’t make sane people go berserk in a store,” he writes in the Dallas Morning News. “Bad behavior is bad behavior, practiced by people who make the conscious choice to engage in it.”
    http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/...ing-Death.html

  3. #23
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Oh, BTW Justin. I do agree with you about prosicuting those who did the trampling.

    To me, this goes back to the same thing. Hold people responsible for their actions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
    I agree with crash. I have a hard time blaming the stores, for people not knowing how to act.

    Justin....isn't blaming the stores, the same as blaming Beer companies for people getting drunk.....or gun companies, for people getting shot........or keyboard makers, for mis-spelled words??? For gods sake, when will people ever take responsibility for their actions???

    Batch....I can't decide whether or not to agree with your point. I can see both sides. I see your point, but at the same time, I think it's kinda like a bad part of town. Town officials should clean it up, and make it safe....but until they do, I stay the heck out of that part of town.
    No, I dont think so,, this happened on store property,

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    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    No, I dont think so,, this happened on store property,
    So if crash and Ken were in a store, and crash punched Ken in the mouth, would the store be responsible for that, too???
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
    So if crash and Ken were in a store, and crash punched Ken in the mouth, would the store be responsible for that, too???
    You bet ! if the store knew there was a real good chance that Crash was going to punch a customer and store security allowed crash into the store anyway,,, who is to blame ? I say BOTH,, Crash and the store share responsibility,,

  7. #27
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Hmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    So that's what Ken's up to these days!
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  8. #28
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    You bet ! if the store knew there was a real good chance that Crash was going to punch a customer and store security allowed crash into the store anyway,,, who is to blame ? I say BOTH,, Crash and the store share responsibility,,
    Thought police??? That's a good way to get sued by crash! LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
    Thought police??? That's a good way to get sued by crash! LOL
    They (store) knew what was going to happen AND they knew how to prevent it,, as Batch said,, Yet, they "Hosted" a dangerous event anyway,, they (store) is just as guilty as the A$$holes that did the trampling,, IMO,, Hey, I am no lawyer,, its just my opinion,,,

  10. #30
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    They (store) knew what was going to happen AND they knew how to prevent it,, as Batch said,, Yet, they "Hosted" a dangerous event anyway,, they (store) is just as guilty as the A$$holes that did the trampling,, IMO,, Hey, I am no lawyer,, its just my opinion,,,
    I think the stores should have used better judgement, but I don't think what they did, makes them responsible for peoples actions.
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  11. #31
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    I'm not a lawyer either but there is probably some precedent to hold the store liable. There was a very celebrated case in early 20th Century when a merchant ship was lost at see along with it's cargo. The shipping company claimed act of God but the owner's of the cargo sued...and won. The courts ruled that the shipping company could have installed the new wireless and would have been aware that they were sailing into a storm. Since they chose not to they were responsible for the lost cargo.

    If the store had a reasonable expectation that customers would charge the doors then they should have take some precautions to prevent it from happening.

    I still believe the idiots were responsible for their actions but I'd bet the above would hold.
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  12. #32
    Lumpy chair made me do it oly's Avatar
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    I don't know how you could hold anyone responsible for trampling over another person when the mob is pushing you on top of them and you must stay on your feet or you will be trampled.

    I still believe the stores are responsible for creating the mob in the first place.

    Im safe and sound in my lumpy chair every black friday.
    A mouse ate a hole in my lumpy chair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oly View Post
    I don't know how you could hold anyone responsible for trampling over another person when the mob is pushing you on top of them and you must stay on your feet or you will be trampled.

    I still believe the stores are responsible for creating the mob in the first place.

    Im safe and sound in my lumpy chair every black friday.
    Thats the Smartest move !

  14. #34
    Senior Member aflineman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    ...... but there is probably some precedent to hold the store liable.
    And in law, that is one thing that tends to help win cases.

    I had to go shopping on Black Friday. NOT for sales, but because I need some heat tape to help prevent my drain line in my work home from freezing again. I waited until the afternoon when things died down a bit. Still busy though. The Co-op still had some good sales going, I guess.
    Last edited by aflineman; 11-28-2010 at 01:46 PM.
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  15. #35
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    And in other news....

    Twenty seven lineman were injured Friday when they rushed the doors of the co-op at 3:00 a.m.

    "It was just horrible," said female lineman Lotta Wattage. "I brought my son down because they had Klein tools on sale and we both nearly got killed when the doors opened. You'd have thought someone yelled, 'Coffee break'".

    Oregon Co-op declined comment.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    female lineman Lotta Wattage
    OK....that was a good one! LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit View Post
    OK....that was a good one! LOL
    DITTO !! LOL

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    Cool Precedents anybody?

    Well, 1st there's the McDonalds "Hot Coffee Spilling incident" that netted the brainless boob a million bucks. However, let me tell you a true story, or so it's reported. that we are all taught during our initial School bus training:

    It seems that some Numpty school bus driver was driving on streets packed with snow & ice when his bus slid into the curb after he failed to negotiate a turn properly. All the kids shouted "That was cool! Do it again!" Wanting to be a hero to his students the driver began swinging his bus back & forth, from one curb to another amid the cheers from his students. It was all great until one young boy slid off of his seat as a result & wound up getting a bad gash on his head. The concerned bus driver asked the boy if he was okay & e said: "Yep, no problem!"

    However, when mommy & daddy saw the nasty gash & discovered how it happened, they were very P.O.'d & talked to a lawyer who sued the driver, his company, the bus manufacturer, as well as the company who made the seats. They all lost except the seat company.

    Here's the deal. The end result of all of this hoopla about "Black Friday" will probably result in these stores having to post a "disclaimer" like: "WARNING! Shop here on Black Friday at your own risk! People have been trampled, crippled, & killed as a result so be warned! Also 1st Aid kits, crutches, wheelchairs, as well as graveside wreaths now on sale!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    Well, 1st there's the McDonalds "Hot Coffee Spilling incident" that netted the brainless boob a million bucks. However, let me tell you a true story, or so it's reported. that we are all taught during our initial School bus training:

    It seems that some Numpty school bus driver was driving on streets packed with snow & ice when his bus slid into the curb after he failed to negotiate a turn properly. All the kids shouted "That was cool! Do it again!" Wanting to be a hero to his students the driver began swinging his bus back & forth, from one curb to another amid the cheers from his students. It was all great until one young boy slid off of his seat as a result & wound up getting a bad gash on his head. The concerned bus driver asked the boy if he was okay & e said: "Yep, no problem!"

    However, when mommy & daddy saw the nasty gash & discovered how it happened, they were very P.O.'d & talked to a lawyer who sued the driver, his company, the bus manufacturer, as well as the company who made the seats. They all lost except the seat company.

    Here's the deal. The end result of all of this hoopla about "Black Friday" will probably result in these stores having to post a "disclaimer" like: "WARNING! Shop here on Black Friday at your own risk! People have been trampled, crippled, & killed as a result so be warned! Also 1st Aid kits, crutches, wheelchairs, as well as graveside wreaths now on sale!"



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    Quote Originally Posted by nell67 View Post
    YOU have GOT to be KIDDING me !

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