quest for food-scenario

[Rick]

You might be right. I think survival is sort of instinctive and spans generations. I see the initial problems but not the long term conquests that so many believe will happen.

[SARKY]

Being realistic about things, I think the worst that would probably happen is food rationing similar to that during both wars in this country.
Now I'm perfectly capable of living on not a lot of food and making it fairly interesting. A lot of people are not and this would, I'm absolutely certain cause food riots regardless. The problems would emerge between the disaster/emergency or whatever hapening and the government getting into gear to take over distribution of supplies to the public.
I think I've mentioned before, preparedness just isn't in the British psyche anymore. I have kept my preps to myself because I know I would be ridiculed and viewed with great suspicion.

Miss Winnie, The first riot will more than likely take place in a ration line. And do you really trust the governmet to be truly impartial in doleing out food? As elitist as politicians are, do you believe that they wouldn't insure that they got priority as to food stuffs?

[SARKY]

I addressed that in another thread. I don't see the difference. You are looking at farmer's in the Dust Bowl and comparing them to some town kid sitting in front of a Wii console. There were plenty of Fatsos during the Dust Bowl era. Google Sig Klein's Fat Men's Shop. It's a men's store for fat guys in 1930's New York. Guys like Teddy Roosevelt, John Adams, Jr or Taft sure weren't fit as fiddles. I don't see the difference. People are people.

Fat people back then, for the most part were people of power and/or money. Today we have kids that obese who are in families recieving food stamps!

[SARKY]

You might be right. I think survival is sort of instinctive and spans generations. I see the initial problems but not the long term conquests that so many believe will happen.

It will be during that transition period that most of the casualties will occur. As long as the smart, industrious survive, we will have a chance.

[SARKY]

On the water issue....Look for the lowest faucet in any high rise. There will probably be some water left in the piping. All the water heaters will have some water in them. All the toilet tanks. Easy pickins for city water.

I don't agree, by the time everything settles down in an urban area, any water available will be far between. This means expending calories to collect it. Plus any others in the cities will be protecting their resources, puting you at risk.
If you haven't guessed by now, i've done a lot of thinking and research on this. For the fiction book i'm writing, which takes place in an urban enviroment.

[Swamprat1958]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is what will you do when the area you are hunting and foraging in becomes over hunted/foraged? Even Native Americans had to move periodically because game and other food resources became scarce.

Most people think about deer, rabbits,squirrels, etc. but overlook furbearers. Raccoon, opossums, beavers, etc. are generally as abundant if not more abundant than common species of wild game. A knowledge of furbearers and trapping would be very helpful, if not essential, in a survival or SHTF situation.

[Winnie]

Miss Winnie, The first riot will more than likely take place in a ration line. And do you really trust the governmet to be truly impartial in doleing out food? As elitist as politicians are, do you believe that they wouldn't insure that they got priority as to food stuffs?

Categorically no on both counts Sarky, hence my preps. However, Gryff raised a very valid point when he mentioned getting in line for rations. If you're not there, but seem to be doing well and all your neighbours are in the queue, they will eventually start to wonder and as Gryff stated, come to the conclusion you may have your own stores.
My position is slightly different because of my location, but I'm certainly not going to turn down any food items offered.

[rwc1969]

Swamprat, around here the deer will go quickly, but the other critters will take much longer to be eaten. That's why I will be defending the areas I hunt with extreme prejudice. And I won't even have to be there to defend it. The woods will not be a safe place for people if it ever comes to this.

It appears some underestimate the mentallity of people today and also underestimate the effectivenes of gang warfare or whatever you want to call it.

Hopefully those of you that think the world ain't goong to hell have brought your neighbors together to enact a plan of defense. If not you will be the first to go. It doesn't matter how many guns you have or bars on the windows. You can't compete against a large group however disorganized or inept they may or may not be.

[Batch]

I would probably wait and see the situation out. Also, who would move with me would depend on the time of year. Most would opt out during the summer. It is hot, humid and the bugs will cause many to bug out.

If it ever did get bad enough, I would make my way to a camp I know where other like minded people will go. If there isn't a co-operative community there I will move deeper into the back country.

I also think that learning ways to cook food that most people will not know is edible or will turn up their nose to is smart. Gar is great example of fish that is in over abundance in this area and that most anglers will not touch. However, folks that have eaten gar all swear it is great fish to eat.

[SARKY]

Miss Winnie, You are most correct in getting in the food line. Don't ever give up any pretense of bring helpless if it allows you to fly under the radar.

The gangs have a leg up when it come to organization of a group as well as a hierarchy. If you put a group together, get it right the first time as the gangs will look at you as a rival and take you down if they can.

[SARKY]

Swamprat, around here the deer will go quickly, but the other critters will take much longer to be eaten. That's why I will be defending the areas I hunt with extreme prejudice. And I won't even have to be there to defend it. The woods will not be a safe place for people if it ever comes to this.

It appears some underestimate the mentallity of people today and also underestimate the effectivenes of gang warfare or whatever you want to call it.

Hopefully those of you that think the world ain't goong to hell have brought your neighbors together to enact a plan of defense. If not you will be the first to go. It doesn't matter how many guns you have or bars on the windows. You can't compete against a large group however disorganized or inept they may or may not be.

large groups can be whittled down to size by various means (unconvential warfare)

[rwc1969]

For those of you that are bugging in types, how do you intend to cook your meals, etc. for 2 years if there is no energy provided to you by the powers that be?

Say you live in a high rise apartment complex for instance.

Do you have 2 years worth of propane stored? will it be safe? What will you do with all the feces that is generated by eating since you may not have working plumbing?

[Winnie]

For me RWC, I have an open fire and a woodburning range indoors. One of the benefits of living in an old cottage. The other advantage is the room would be heated too. I also am now the proud owner of a Kelly Kettle. I also have a gas stove, but that is more for emergencies than long term.
I'd do the outhouse thing with regard to waste.

Here's the range.

[nell67]

That is a BEAUTIFUL range Winnie! Any idea of how old it is?

[Rick]

I have a fireplace with a very large box and a large outdoor grill that I'd probably convert to wood for three season cooking then use the fireplace on bad days. I also have 25 gallons of gasoline stored (with stabilizer) that can be used in Coleman stoves along with five 20lb propane tanks and probably a dozen small Coleman tanks and map tanks.

For hygiene, an outdoor toilet WITH DOOR would be pretty easy to install.

[Winnie]

That is a BEAUTIFUL range Winnie! Any idea of how old it is?

It is pretty cute isn't it. I think it's about 1930's.
I need to do some more research on it and get it safety tested. I haven't had much luck finding any info on the make so far on the interweb. Not quite sure where to go from here. It's a Carlyle Hobark. There are so many knobs and dampers it's not just a case of light it and away we go!

[wareagle69]

well this hasn't really answered my question of "where" would you look for food.
what i see are many relying on community and government.
as far as looting and rioting-possible at first but as energy dies down so will the criminals.
Sure some may make it up here, but then i don't see them dragging kitchens behind them so how to prepare the corn in the feild, how bout that rabbit-most will turn up there noses at it.
as far as wild food, both vegatative and meat, well maybe close to civilization it may be picked over but thats it, the game will go deep into the bush, maybe allot here don't have any large amounts of bush around, some here do and the capabilty to go deep- i mean like 7 days of walking in deep, those will live
Reminds me of a story
when i was married to the first wife she had spoiled her boy on take out food, partly because she was a busy single mom, and partly cuz she was lazy. so about 18 months into our relationship we goes to her moms for dinner, meat and taters type of chow, and what does little eddie do? well he truns of his nose looks at his mom and says" i want some real food"
and that my feinds sums up the world today- they won't want to eat weeds and porkypines, even when starving. ok by me, means more for me

[wareagle69]

let me say this, so as not to be a hypocryte.
i can be just as lazy as the next guy, in my very busy life it is easier to pop a frozen something in the microwave or stop by the firechiefs fish and chip stand or eat at the cafateria at work, but what i find most important to do is stay in shape and have adequate stores put away, what helps also is that at this point i have a 3 yr jumpstart on my wild edibles quest and that i moved far enough north that i can hunt and trap along with the other locals who know the area, now do i think i am alone in that? heck no but i think that if the hordes of folks that want to come to the bush because we have lakes and farms, they will not be dragging the proper supplies to sustain themselves and will be of no threat in the bush for overharvesting.
also even if the big city folks come this far north looking for food its a long walk400km from toronto to here, sure some will make it. also as rick says most of us in this small community will band together to help each other, will that happen in the large metro? i'm not hopeful of that

[wareagle69]

one other point on wildedibles
i have been out on walks with my sar group and pointing out WE's and it always strikes me as funny when i point out something, lets use sweet fern as it just happened this weekend, so anyways one young lady takes some and tries to eat it and spits it out. First off she wasn't paying attn when i said it makes a palatable tea, but that is the problem is folks think these foods are like clery or apples or carrots, just eat as you go, sure some are but for the most part there is an art to preparing these dishes to make them taste good, thats where learning to cook is important not just to id and harvest, so i think most will try a dandelion or cat tail as they are easy to id and spit them out with disgust and walk away from life saving and sustaining food

[crashdive123]

For those of you that are bugging in types, how do you intend to cook your meals, etc. for 2 years if there is no energy provided to you by the powers that be?

Say you live in a high rise apartment complex for instance.

Do you have 2 years worth of propane stored? will it be safe? What will you do with all the feces that is generated by eating since you may not have working plumbing?

Yes, I store enough propane to run a camp stove for two years. I also plan on taking advantage of living in the Sunshine State (solar oven and cooker).
I do not live in a high rise. My house has a septic tank. Toilet is easily flushed with a bucked of rain water.

I seriously do not envision any SHTF scenarios where there will be a total collapse of everything, everywhere.........but nothing is impossible.