BP Oil

[HeritageFarm]

You mean like the 25% of farm production that gets exported, to countries that cannot produce enough food to feed their people. Should we not ship that food, and let those millions of people starve?

Those countries are overpopulated. There is something wrong with them, and they need to fix it. I have no idea what goes on over there, I cannot know all the worlds problems. So I stay away from this topic.

[Ken]

Good Lord!

Rick's off-line at the moment.

[Ken]

I have no idea what goes on over there, I cannot know all the worlds problems.

I have solutions for all of them.

Simply vote the Ken-2dumb ticket for Ruler of the World in the next election.

[Justin Case]

Ken-2dumb ticket

Does have a certain Ring to it !

[huntermj]

Im not voting for a ticket that has the words 2dumb in it. I might get whats advertisaed and you get what you pay for.

[2dumb2kwit]

So can and preserve. If you're on a Wilderness Survival forum, you know the best way to survive is to mimic nature.

So where would you draw the line? Would you trade goods with a farm next to you? How about 2 miles away? Would you go completely natural, and not have a fire to stay warm? In nature, you eat only what you can find and /or kill, so is farming out of the picture?
Survival is one thing, but in day to day life I choose to live a more comfortable life.

[Ken]

Im not voting for a ticket that has the words 2dumb in it. I might get whats advertisaed and you get what you pay for.

At least you know he's honest. How many elected leaders do you trust?

[2dumb2kwit]

Those countries are overpopulated. There is something wrong with them, and they need to fix it. I have no idea what goes on over there, I cannot know all the worlds problems. So I stay away from this topic.

Maybe you should look at the bigger picture. Some of those countries have things that we need.

[2dumb2kwit]

At least you know he's honest. How many elected leaders do you trust?

Yeah....what he said!LOL

[HeritageFarm]

Instead of arguing about whether or not he's a radical, why don't you show us some supporting evidence of the things that you are quoting.

Cargill is huge:
Cargill is the largest privately owned firm in America. In 2008, Cargill reported profits of almost $4 billion, its sixth
straight year of record-breaking earnings, even as much of the rest of the world economy started to collapse.
Cargill packages with corbon monoxide:
Cargill has been a major advocate for technological fixes to
food safety challenges that could also be addressed through
more stringent sanitation and other preventative measures.
Only days before the November 2007 recall of hamburger
patties, a Cargill representative testified before Congress
and claimed its use of carbon monoxide in meat packaging
helped inhibit the growth of E. coli.98 There is no evidence
that carbon monoxide hinders or inhibits the bacteria that
cause foodborne illness, and the FDA did not approve it
for that use.99 The company had treated much of the beef
involved in the recalls with carbon monoxide, which is primarily
used in meat packaging to keep meat looking fresh
and red long after it may have spoiled.100
Cargill dismembers bill, prices of commodities drop:
Cargill was a major supporter of the massive deregulation
of federal agricultural policy in the 1996 farm bill, promoted
as “Freedom to Farm.”48 Cargill’s policy analyst noted
that the bill “is truly watershed legislation” that is “going to
create wonderful opportunities for many, many people in
the farm economy.”49 This farm bill was supposed to put an
end to government regulation of farming, completely phase
out government farm program payments, and encourage
farmers to plant as much as they wanted in order to take
advantage of the market.50 Proponents claimed that that
the bill would be good for U.S. farmers, allowing them to
take advantage of rising grain prices and global consumption.
51 In actuality, the new system slashed farm safety
nets and encouraged overproduction, which in turn pushed
down commodity prices.52 For example, the first year after
the 1996 farm bill went into effect, corn production jumped
by 25 percent while prices per bushel fell by 35 percent.53
In the next years, crop prices plummeted to levels well
below the cost of production.54 This free fall in commodity
prices triggered billions of dollars in “emergency” farm payments
by the federal government to head off a farm crisis.
As a significant crop purchaser, Cargill stood to benefit
from the reduced prices for the raw materials it used in
processed foods and feed.
Above: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7470879/Ca...#fullscreen:on
Small farms more profitable:
By managing fewer resources more intensively, small farmers are able to make more profit per unit of output, and thus, make more total profits — even if production of each commodity is less.12 In overall output, the diversified farm produces much more food. In the United States the smallest two-hectare farms produced $15,104 per hectare and netted about $2,902 per hectare. The largest farms, averaging 15,581 hectares, yielded $249 per hectare and netted about $52 per hectare. Not only do small- to medium-sized farms exhibit higher yields than conventional larger-scale farms, but they do this with much lower negative impacts on the environment, as research shows that small farmers take better care of natural resources, including reducing soil erosion and conserving biodiversity. However, an important part of the higher per hectare income of small farms in the United States is that they tend to by-pass middlemen and sell directly to the public, restaurants, or markets. They also tend to receive a premium for their local, and frequently organic, products.
Above: http://www.monthlyreview.org/090810altieri.php
Factory farms polluting:
Threats to Human Health

People who live near or work at factory farms breathe in hundreds of gases, which are formed as manure decomposes. The stench can be unbearable, but worse still, the gases contain many harmful chemicals. For instance, one gas released by the lagoons, hydrogen sulfide, is dangerous even at low levels. Its effects -- which are irreversible -- range from sore throat to seizures, comas and even death. Other health effects associated with the gases from factory farms include headaches, shortness of breath, wheezing, excessive coughing and diarrhea.

Animal waste also contaminates drinking water supplies. For example, nitrates often seep from lagoons and sprayfields into groundwater. Drinking water contaminated with nitrates can increase the risk of blue baby syndrome, which can cause deaths in infants. High levels of nitrates in drinking water near hog factories have also been linked to spontaneous abortions. Several disease outbreaks related to drinking water have been traced to bacteria and viruses from waste.

On top of this, the widespread use of antibiotics also poses dangers. Large-scale animal factories often give animals antibiotics to promote growth, or to compensate for illness resulting from crowded conditions. These antibiotics are entering the environment and the food chain, contributing to the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria and making it harder to treat human diseases.
Above: http://www.nrdc.org/water/pollution/nspills.asp

[Justin Case]

Never heard of them

[HeritageFarm]

So where would you draw the line? Would you trade goods with a farm next to you? How about 2 miles away? Would you go completely natural, and not have a fire to stay warm? In nature, you eat only what you can find and /or kill, so is farming out of the picture?
Survival is one thing, but in day to day life I choose to live a more comfortable life.

Permaculture is a farming practice that mimics nature... To a certain extent. The object of farming is to make a profit - do we have to sacrifice the land to do it? Do you want to kill to live comfortably? Do you want your children to live in a nuclear waste dump because you refused to not live in way that protected the Earth? When you are a Steward of Nature, your job is to protect - not to kill! That's what improper farming practices are doing - they are killing the environment! I just got an EPA newsletter where they sued a CAFO for water pollution!
I also choose to live comfortably - in ways that have less damage to Earth.

[HeritageFarm]

Never heard of them

Of what? of What?

[crashdive123]

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh. Your Cargill bashing link has an advertisement for Dominos Pizza at the top of the page. Tell me which causes more harm? Funny stuff. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.

[Ken]

I'm thinking about "economies of scale." Should everyone disconnect from the grid and run their own generator? Remember, not many can afford the start-up costs associated with wind or solar power.

[2dumb2kwit]

Cargill is huge:
Cargill is the largest privately owned firm in America. In 2008, Cargill reported profits of almost $4 billion, its sixth
straight year of record-breaking earnings, even as much of the rest of the world economy started to collapse.
Cargill packages with corbon monoxide:
Cargill has been a major advocate for technological fixes to
food safety challenges that could also be addressed through
more stringent sanitation and other preventative measures.
Only days before the November 2007 recall of hamburger
patties, a Cargill representative testified before Congress
and claimed its use of carbon monoxide in meat packaging
helped inhibit the growth of E. coli.98 There is no evidence
that carbon monoxide hinders or inhibits the bacteria that
cause foodborne illness, and the FDA did not approve it
for that use.99 The company had treated much of the beef
involved in the recalls with carbon monoxide, which is primarily
used in meat packaging to keep meat looking fresh
and red long after it may have spoiled.100
Cargill dismembers bill, prices of commodities drop:
Cargill was a major supporter of the massive deregulation
of federal agricultural policy in the 1996 farm bill, promoted
as “Freedom to Farm.”48 Cargill’s policy analyst noted
that the bill “is truly watershed legislation” that is “going to
create wonderful opportunities for many, many people in
the farm economy.”49 This farm bill was supposed to put an
end to government regulation of farming, completely phase
out government farm program payments, and encourage
farmers to plant as much as they wanted in order to take
advantage of the market.50 Proponents claimed that that
the bill would be good for U.S. farmers, allowing them to
take advantage of rising grain prices and global consumption.
51 In actuality, the new system slashed farm safety
nets and encouraged overproduction, which in turn pushed
down commodity prices.52 For example, the first year after
the 1996 farm bill went into effect, corn production jumped
by 25 percent while prices per bushel fell by 35 percent.53
In the next years, crop prices plummeted to levels well
below the cost of production.54 This free fall in commodity
prices triggered billions of dollars in “emergency” farm payments
by the federal government to head off a farm crisis.
As a significant crop purchaser, Cargill stood to benefit
from the reduced prices for the raw materials it used in
processed foods and feed.
Above: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7470879/Ca...#fullscreen:on
Small farms more profitable:
By managing fewer resources more intensively, small farmers are able to make more profit per unit of output, and thus, make more total profits — even if production of each commodity is less.12 In overall output, the diversified farm produces much more food. In the United States the smallest two-hectare farms produced $15,104 per hectare and netted about $2,902 per hectare. The largest farms, averaging 15,581 hectares, yielded $249 per hectare and netted about $52 per hectare. Not only do small- to medium-sized farms exhibit higher yields than conventional larger-scale farms, but they do this with much lower negative impacts on the environment, as research shows that small farmers take better care of natural resources, including reducing soil erosion and conserving biodiversity. However, an important part of the higher per hectare income of small farms in the United States is that they tend to by-pass middlemen and sell directly to the public, restaurants, or markets. They also tend to receive a premium for their local, and frequently organic, products.
Above: http://www.monthlyreview.org/090810altieri.php
Factory farms polluting:
Threats to Human Health

People who live near or work at factory farms breathe in hundreds of gases, which are formed as manure decomposes. The stench can be unbearable, but worse still, the gases contain many harmful chemicals. For instance, one gas released by the lagoons, hydrogen sulfide, is dangerous even at low levels. Its effects -- which are irreversible -- range from sore throat to seizures, comas and even death. Other health effects associated with the gases from factory farms include headaches, shortness of breath, wheezing, excessive coughing and diarrhea.

Animal waste also contaminates drinking water supplies. For example, nitrates often seep from lagoons and sprayfields into groundwater. Drinking water contaminated with nitrates can increase the risk of blue baby syndrome, which can cause deaths in infants. High levels of nitrates in drinking water near hog factories have also been linked to spontaneous abortions. Several disease outbreaks related to drinking water have been traced to bacteria and viruses from waste.

On top of this, the widespread use of antibiotics also poses dangers. Large-scale animal factories often give animals antibiotics to promote growth, or to compensate for illness resulting from crowded conditions. These antibiotics are entering the environment and the food chain, contributing to the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria and making it harder to treat human diseases.
Above: http://www.nrdc.org/water/pollution/nspills.asp

First, The size of a company is irrelevant.
Second, if they do anything that is not legal....prosecute them.
Third, if they are opperating leagally, but you still don't like how they do business....don't do business with them.

Is there anything else, that you need help with?

[Ken]

Here's a fairly large company. I drive by their bogs quite often.

They have 600 growers.

http://www.oceanspray.com/heritage/

[Camp10]

I'm thinking about "economies of scale." Should everyone disconnect from the grid and run their own generator? .

That would wreck my economy!!

[HeritageFarm]

First, The size of a company is irrelevant.
Second, if they do anything that is not legal....prosecute them.
Third, if they are opperating leagally, but you still don't like how they do business....don't do business with them.

Is there anything else, that you need help with?

This is futile.

[crashdive123]

Alrighty then. What's the best survival knife?