Question about land, as it relates to bugging out

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 05:50 PM

I am curious about a legal aspect of bugging out. Let's say that someone takes a couple of weeks off of work, and decides to do a dry run, and roughs it in a remote location.

If one is standing at a point on the earth's surface that is inside the U.S., and that point is not in a municipal/county/state/federal park or forest, nor in an Indian reservation, nor in a military base, nor on private property, then what is the official designation of the land that contains that point? Second, what are the legal ramifications for living on such land for an indefinite period of time?

**canid** · 01-12-2008, 06:27 PM

then it would be undesignated BLM land, or otherwise designated BLM and. all of our land is either publicly oned [one government or aother] or privately owned [one individual, group or corporate entity]. there may be some other cases not provided for in this.

my advice would be to use BLM lands of known use, such as national forest.

**Sourdough** · 01-12-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by FAL rifleman

I am curious about a legal aspect of bugging out. Let's say that someone takes a couple of weeks off of work, and decides to do a dry run, and roughs it in a remote location.

If one is standing at a point on the earth's surface that is inside the U.S., and that point is not in a municipal/county/state/federal park or forest, nor in an Indian reservation, nor in a military base, nor on private property, then what is the official designation of the land that contains that point? Second, what are the legal ramifications for living on such land for an indefinite period of time?

Most Federal Lands not in the Parks is managed by BLM. You need a permit for extended stay. We in the guiding business spend a lot of time and money on permits. There is a small window If you move your camp every few days. On most state lands you need permits for extended stays.

You would never leave a mess that might cost thousands of dollars to clean up, but some do. As a bush pilot I have been shocked to see the damage done by extended residence.

**wildWoman** · 01-12-2008, 06:37 PM

I live in Canada but maybe it's similar in the States. Here you can camp for free for twwo weeks on public land, however, there is no definition to what moving your camp means. Theoretically you could set up camp and move it an inch every two weeks.
You may also want to check into staking a placer claim, if that works in the area you're intersted in. Up here, it allows you to live on it over the summer.

**canid** · 01-12-2008, 06:41 PM

in natioanal forest, it's limited to 14days aswell, at one time i heard that you had to move 5 miles and could not return for 90 days. i am not sure about the accuracy the numbers.

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 06:49 PM

So the default designation, in the U.S., for land that does not fit into any other category is public land under Bureau of Land Management control?

The laws about how long one can stay in one spot do remind me of something that I read about people in the Southwest who, to avoid squatting, would move their camp a couple hundred yards every week or so. I have also read about people who squat in the Southwest and use aerial camouflage nets so that they cannot be detected from the air. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this?

**Sourdough** · 01-12-2008, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by FAL rifleman

So the default designation, in the U.S., for land that does not fit into any other category is public land under Bureau of Land Management control?

The laws about how long one can stay in one spot do remind me of something that I read about people in the Southwest who, to avoid squatting, would move their camp a couple hundred yards every week or so. I have also read about people who squat in the Southwest and use aerial camouflage nets so that they cannot be detected from the air. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this?

We all own the Federal lands, Some lands are more fragile than others. I look at it this way, "WE HUMANS are THE SKIN CANCER on the EARTH, And I am not a hardcore Greenie.

**Rick** · 01-12-2008, 07:03 PM

I don't get the camouflage nets scenario. Who's going to be looking? And if they are, why aren't they using forward looking IR?

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

I don't get the camouflage nets scenario. Who's going to be looking? And if they are, why aren't they using forward looking IR?

Presumably, they are worried about being harassed for squatting (in other words, living on public land for too long a period of time without moving their camp). They may also simply enjoy the feeling of living somewhere where Uncle excrement-head doesn't know where they are.

I have actually just recently read up on evading thermal imaging (TI) detection:

http://theindependentamerican.freeyellow.com/therm.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread297970/pg1

Thus, a good combination of optical and TI camouflage techniques to disguise your camp and your person would be ideal.

**Sourdough** · 01-12-2008, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by FAL rifleman

I have actually just recently read up on evading thermal imaging (TI) detection:

http://theindependentamerican.freeyellow.com/therm.html

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread297970/pg1

Thus, a good combination of optical and TI camouflage techniques to disguise your camp and your person would be ideal.

Why, do some people only look for ways sneak around, and feel that they are special, and the laws are for other people but not them. Why...? Why can't you just play by the rules. If your Bugout-mobile is impounded, and you are in prison for criminal trespass when the SH*t really hits the fan, you are going to be super bummed>>>>>>>>>>>>>

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by hopeak

Why, do some people only look for ways sneak around, and feel that they are special, and the laws are for other people but not them. Why...? Why can't you just play by the rules.

We are posting on a survivalist message board, afterall.

For many people, survivalism entails effectively dealing with the crappy reality that one's government has forced upon him.

Besides, they often don't even play by their own rules.

The bottonline is, if I want to live in privacy and not have anyone know where I am, what business is it of yours?

If your Bugout-mobile is impounded, and you are in prison for criminal trespass when the SH*t really hits the fan, you are going to be super bummed

What is the punishment for squatting (assuming you're even caught, and then, if they do more than just tell you to move)? Somehow, I doubt that it is years in some maximum security prison.

**nell67** · 01-12-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by FAL rifleman

We are posting on a survivalist message board, afterall.

For many people, survivalism entails effectively dealing with the crappy reality that one's government has forced upon him.

Besides, they often don't even play by their own rules.

The bottonline is, if I want to live in privacy and not have anyone know where I am, what business is it of yours?

No politics on the forum please.Any questions about that can be answered in the forum rules.

**Sourdough** · 01-12-2008, 07:22 PM

You started this stating a "DRY RUN"......To test your equipment"....????

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by nell67

No politics on the forum please.Any questions about that can be answered in the forum rules.

Are you a moderator?

If you are, then isn't the prohibition against discussing politics a two-way street, or is it okay to discuss politics as long as one does it from a pro-government standpoint?

I ask because hopeak is the one who went down this tangent, and yet you quoted my response to his derail of this thread, instead of the derail itself (when you quote someone's post, you are specifically addressing that person), thereby implying some sort of double standard in favor of state worship.

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by hopeak

You started this stating a "DRY RUN"......To test your equipment"....????

To practice survivalist skills and test equipment.

**nell67** · 01-12-2008, 07:32 PM

No I am not a moderator,but that does not change the fact that the rules state no politics.
The rules are there ,plain and simple.

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by nell67

No I am not a moderator,but that does not change the fact that the rules state no politics.
The rules are there ,plain and simple.

And this applies to me, and not to hopeak?

By the way, what does talk of ways to avoid government detection have to do with politcs? It only becomes about politics when someone demands that a man explain himself when he says that he wants to avoid government detection. There is a difference between the HOW (nothing to do with politics) and the WHY (may potentially involve politics, but also philosophy).

If you are not a moderator, why do you take it upon yourself to (mis)interpret the rules?

**nell67** · 01-12-2008, 07:38 PM

It applies to everyone on the forum

**FAL rifleman** · 01-12-2008, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by nell67

It applies to everyone on the forum

Then why did you quote my post, and not hopeak's post, when I was the one discussing the HOW of evading detection (which has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with physics and other sciences), and hopeak made it into the WHY of evading detection (thereby making it about politics)?