12 dead and 31 wounded on Ft. Hood

[Pal334]

IMO it was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist.

May I interject , that one key element in the definition of terrosist / terrorism is ( I am paraphrasing) "Attempting to alter or influence a government or people by use of violence" . This slug seemed to have only his personal circumstance in mind with this particular act, and no real goal of changing a government policy. My point being, lets be careful in labeling it an act of terrorism by , or on the behalf of a religion. It may "simply" be a stressed individual acting out horribly. And rest assured, I am in no way condoning, or making excuses for his action, on the contrary, may he rot and burn in swine H**l

Also to help Benese, this is a simplified version of the definition of terrorism


–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

[crashdive123]

I know what you mean, but by several accounts he yelled allah akbar before starting the executions. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/..._hood_shooting I know his family is saying that he did not embrace the radical side of the religion, but to me that is no different than a family member, whose child just committed some heinous act saying - "he was such a good boy"

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Kind of reminds me of Kamiyama.....LOL

[2dumb2kwit]

May I interject , that one key element in the definition of terrosist / terrorism is ( I am paraphrasing) "Attempting to alter or influence a government or people by use of violence" . This slug seemed to have only his personal circumstance in mind with this particular act, and no real goal of changing a government policy. My point being, lets be careful in labeling it an act of terrorism by , or on the behalf of a religion. It may "simply" be a stressed individual acting out horribly. And rest assured, I am in no way condoning, or making excuses for his action, on the contrary, may he rot and burn in swine H**l

Also to help Benese, this is a simplified version of the definition of terrorism


–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Then by definition, didn't he commit an act of terrorism.
It sounds like you are right, about him being a nut, but he didn't commit suicide or go awol.

[Pal334]

I understand what you are saying, but just the use of a religious invective / chant etc, should not bestow on him the mantle of a terrorist. I think time will tell that he was just a jerk that could not cope with pressure of his job,pending deployment and his perception religious discrimination, not a person who was trying to make any sort of political statement or action which would be needed to meet the criteria needed to make him a terrorist. Just something to mull over

[2dumb2kwit]

Either way....I feel for the families of the dead and wounded.

[Pal334]

Then by definition, didn't he commit an act of terrorism.
It sounds like you are right, about him being a nut, but he didn't commit suicide or go awol.

I don't think so
–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. WHo did he intimidate or coerce?
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization. The US Army and the USA is not in fear or in submission
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.This wouldbe border line, was it hs way of resisting ?

[crashdive123]

Just to add a bit more. He was a psychiatrist, treating US servicemen. It is alleged that he tried to convert some of his patients to Islam. IMO he was making a political statement - but time will tell.

[BENESSE]

If you can't see the difference than it'll take more than an explanation on an internet forum.

Sorry, I was just being facetious--I forget that it's hard to tell in this venue.

Be that as it may, based on past examples, a terrorist is most likely to be a nutcase as well as a criminal. A nutcase is not necessarily a terrorist.

But honestly, who gives a flying f which it is?!
This was preventable and we need to "man up" to it instead of making excuses.

[LostOutrider]

But honestly, who gives a flying f which it is?!
This was preventable and we need to "man up" to it instead of making excuses.

Yeah, ditto. So long as "man up" means taking a good hard look at the mental health care we're offering our soldiers . . . as well as the health care and oversight we're giving to the folks who are supposed to be taking care of our soldiers.

It has to be more than waving bacon at a line of recruits and kicking out anyone who flinches or checking their church membership card. I mean, seriously.

[sgtdraino]

It's a shame that those four that she put in him, didn't kill him.

I'm frankly glad the scum wasn't killed. That's what he wanted, and he was denied that. Now he will hopefully come out of his coma and be utterly disgraced by being forced to face his actions, face his victims. Then put him to death.

[2dumb2kwit]

I'm frankly glad the scum wasn't killed. That's what he wanted, and he was denied that. Now he will hopefully come out of his coma and be utterly disgraced by being forced to face his actions, face his victims. Then put him to death.

I can go along with that.....but can we still involve pig blood? LOL
(I want him to know that he ain't gettin' 72 virgins.)

[Rick]

Ken, you probably know this better than I but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it costs the government in excess of a million dollars to seek the death penalty. Once convicted, they are automatically given an appeal because of the severity of the punishment. If all that's true, you sort of hope the moron dies outright.

[BENESSE]

I'm just really sick at heart over this latest development--yet another one in the string of...why us, why here.
When are we (US Govt./citizens) ever going to stop REacting and start PROacting? What is it going to take?
How bad does it to have to get before we say enough is enough and take some serious precautions the way Israelis have?
I am reasonable, educated, independent, live-and-let-live kind of person but this is beyond my comprehension.
Somebody please walk me through it, because I can't make sense of it any more.

[rwc1969]

Well, unless we start taking away people's rights this kinda stuff will unfortunately continue.

Although, I'm sure things could have been done to prevent it, but hindsight is 20/20.

It's part of the price paid for living in a relatively free society.

[Rick]

I don't think it's just us. This type of thing happens all over the world. It's just readily reported here and, since it "impacts" us directly, we are more attuned to it.

There are all sorts of atrocities being committed every day in places like Bosnia, Dafur, Rwanda and Cambodia and it has gone on since man was born.

[BENESSE]

There are all sorts of atrocities being committed every day in places like Bosnia, Dafur, Rwanda and Cambodia and it has gone on since man was born.

Measuring ourselves against those countries somehow doesn't make me feel better.
Don't hear any of this stuff going on in Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Norway
or Israel for that matter. I keep bringing up Israel because we could learn a thing or two from them especially during this difficult and unprecedented time in our history.

[Winnie]

Measuring ourselves against those countries somehow doesn't make me feel better.
Don't hear any of this stuff going on in Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Norway
or Israel for that matter. I keep bringing up Israel because we could learn a thing or two from them especially during this difficult and unprecedented time in our history.

I normally steer clear of these topics for fear of offending.
It went on over here for more than 40 years. The scumbag perpetrators were known as th IRA. It wasn't just Northern Ireland either. Terrorist tactics only work if you let them. For many years the IRA tried and ultimately failed to influence the way British people lived their lives. We lived with the possibility of not coming home becuase some twit with a car full of explosives was trying to do us harm. It did not work.
I'm not trying to trivialise what this man has done he deserves the same contempt as any other mass murderer.
But getting to the point I'm trying to make, not every person of a certain religion is a terrorist and a little tolerance goes a long way. That's the main reason the European countries you mention rarely suffer these problems.
As for the Isreali conflict, try reading the history books. It's not as one sided as you may think.

[BENESSE]

But getting to the point I'm trying to make, not every person of a certain religion is a terrorist and a little tolerance goes a long way. That's the main reason the European countries you mention rarely suffer these problems.
As for the Isreali conflict, try reading the history books. It's not as one sided as you may think.

Winnie, with all due respect, you are addressing an issue I didn't bring up nor do I see it as an issue in the first place.
This country is definitely one of the most tolerant in the world when it comes to diversity and freedom of religion. It was one of it's founding principles. The lack of tolerance on our side has absolutely nothing to do with what just happened.

NO one is saying that EVERY person of a Muslim religion is a terrorist. Certainly not I.
What the investigation turned up is a preponderance of very telling signs that could have alerted anyone paying attention that this murderer was a brewing s-storm of trouble that should have been addressed before he went off.

As for the Israeli conflict, I don't need to read history books to know that it's not one sided. But again, that's not germane here.
I was merely observing that Israel (the government and the people working in sync) has done an excellent job of taking care of internal security by paying attention and acting proactively at any sign of trouble. This was actually featured in one of the segments on CBS' 60 minutes a few years ago and the point of it was...we could learn a lot from them.

[BENESSE]

Here's the story to which I was referring for anyone who cares:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...in;contentBody


Sept. 2, 2006
Behavioral Profiling Needed
U.S. Should Follow Israeli Security Model In Airports