Urban Survival Manual, any ideas?

[Rick]

I think that's pretty accurate, Jayden. I suspect that's how she was raised and probably all she knows. I don't believe you can change the thinking of folks like that. You can only accept that's how they believe and move on. I also think there is the whole "it won't happen to me" mentality.

Iceman - I think you are looking at three levels of urban survival. The first level is how do I protect my family and home from day to day challenges. All the obvious stuff such as fire, theft, assault, etc. The second level is how do we survive if something happens such as a tornado, chemical leak, etc.. Finally, the third level is how to put it back together again. That might include everything from insurance in the short term to tools and other equipment/resources for long term.

I think it becomes more difficult as you move higher on the scale. It's fairly easy to install smoke alarms in level 1, for example and much more difficult to know how to replace a roof and have the tools and materials to be able to do it, in level 3.

I learned this the hard way as the result of a tornado pretty early on. I was 24 or 25. It was a nasty situation but one of the best lessons I've ever learned. One of those glad I went through it but never want to do it again moments.

I would suggest dividing your preps into three levels. It will make it easier to identify and resolve, I think, and you'll have the gratification of seeing early successes and accomplishments.

[TucsonMax]

Iceman:
I live in the surburbs of Tucson and definitely recommend Ragnar's Urban Survival. He did a lot of research, lived all over the world and spoke to many people who survived Berlin, etc. He did spend some time discussing military scenarios, ie: enemy tanks punching through downtown office buildings and how to properly bury a sniper rifle... things that are not my top concern, (unless Mexico invades). One important point he made, that is RARELY discussed on this site (likely because this is about Wilderness Survival) is staying in place/buggin-in, for the long haul. He describes those who BO as "refugees" (a term I thought I'd never use to describe an American) but that's what many bug-outers would become. (I'll save that discussion for another thread.)

Overall I thought his recomendations were very good and his book is a keeper.

[crashdive123]

TM - I think that most folks here are the bug-in types, with the ability to bug-out if needed.

[TucsonMax]

Crash: I would like to think you are right, but I've read so many posts that say "I'm outa here..." Thuth be told, I've learned so much from this site in the last six months, I should probably spend a month just rereading a few hundred threads again.

[Rick]

I agree with Crash, TM - Personally, I'm a BI kind of guy. Wait.....did that come out right? B.U.G. I.N. kind of guy.

[crashdive123]

There are some, and some are in locations or anticipate situations that bugging out may be the best option for them. For me, and many others (I believe) we have spent time preparing our homesteads to help get us through situations. No need to abandon those preparations unless absolutely necessary. Now - Category 4 or 5 hurricane headed to my location - I guess you could call it bugging out, but I think of it as just finding temporary quarters for a temporary situation.

[Rick]

There will always be situations that force you into bug out scenarios. But, unless push comes to shove, I have no plans to leave my food, fuel, ammo, and generator. And my area is safe enough with good neighbors so I don't have "roving hordes" to worry about.

[TucsonMax]

Rick: I know you're a BIner, have read that many times and that's why I've bookmarked so many of your posts. Maybe it's more of the Young Terks that expect to be living and surviving in the wild.

[Rick]

Don't go spreading the BI thing around, okay?

[Icemancometh]

I, too, have no intention of leaving my supplies behind. Too much to carry and would hate to leave it for the looters. If push came to shove though, I would load up what I could and go. I keep several rubbermaid tubs loaded with just that in mind. They contain water, food, tools, small propane stove, Ruger MK512, ammo etc. and the 590 in close by. I have access to 110 acres (HUNTING LAND)(20 mile drive) that has a pond, spring and plenty of deer, turkey, and small game. I end up worrying more about my wifes parents. They keep plenty of food on hand, but have no way of cooking. During a week long power outage last winter they had no way to cook or heat thier home. Yes they have a fireplace, but I can't get them to store firewood or even buy a campstove to cook on. I made several trips taking them seasoned wood from my stack and they can't even start or keep a fire going, and that is with a gas starter. Any ideas on motivating these people to prepare? I have done all that I know to do and it has got me nowhere. I think they plan on living with me if things were to get very bad.

[Rick]

Well...it sounds like they have a plan. You are delivering the wood.

Actually, some folks you can't motivate for whatever reason. I think the best you can do is make plans to accommodate them if something does happen. At least your wife and you will have peace of mind knowing they will be taken care of.

[Old GI]

There are some, and some are in locations or anticipate situations that bugging out may be the best option for them. For me, and many others (I believe) we have spent time preparing our homesteads to help get us through situations. No need to abandon those preparations unless absolutely necessary. Now - Category 4 or 5 hurricane headed to my location - I guess you could call it bugging out, but I think of it as just finding temporary quarters for a temporary situation.

As a former FL hurricane dude, I've applied the philosophy, discussed here, for many years. Make simple plans - First decision: Stay or Go. Have plans for Bug Out and In including what would be the situation and vulnerabilities.

By the way, Rick. You're a baaaaaaad man!

[Rick]

If I had a nickle for every time........

[equus]

I know that if TSHTF then I will be leaving the city and possibly on horseback. I know for me I would rather survive in the country than to try and to survive in the city. The city I think will have a lot of crime and things that could go very wrong. This is me I would rather take my chances and find something else like a cave or den in the ground.

[BENESSE]

After an intense research for the last 6 months it's been my observation up to this point that the least has been written on Urban Survival, and by Urban I mean NYC, (the ultimate torture test of survival even under normal circumstances) Chicago, LA, etc. (Ragnar comes close but he needs major updating for the 21st cent.)

I see an enormous opportunity in someone starting Urban Survival "retreats" (right in the city of choice) with the approach of teaching people how to survive staying put much like they are thought how to survive in the Wilderness.
With so many unique challenges one would face in a city if TSHTF, a hands-on approach is the only way to learn.

There just isn't anything like it offered anywhere nor a better time to start.

Any takers?

[dscrick]

This is a good thread, and the discussion is valid. This brings me back to Charleston SC when Hurricane Hugo hit. We lived about 17 miles from the coast, but the damage and devastation from that one went far inland. We were without power for 22 days after the storm. Our house had city water, and it was off (no pressure) for 5 days, then unfit to drink for 3 days after that. I was prepared, we had food and water, camping gear, all we needed. And of course I was armed and capable of protecting my family. The shocking thing was the totally unprepared state of the majority of the population. I was amazed. Despite continuous warnings from state and local government, a great many people made no preparations at all. They had no survival knowledge to rely on in most cases either. Needless to say I ended up supporting quite a few unprepared neighbors through this. I think that if I was in a more urban setting my attitude towards others would have been much different. You can easily share with a few people you know, but the hungry masses will certainly try and take what you have when they get desperate. I espouse the theory of bugging out of a city environment to a stocked retreat location. I know many will say "Well we all can't afford a place in the country". Of course not. But you don't need one. A few discreet supply caches along a route to the home of a relative or like minded friend in another area is a good start. Pool your supplies and stock that retreat location, or several locations, together. Make a plan and set up egress routes to the retreats. You then have the strength of a cohesive group at a well supplied place, and you avoid the mobs of unprepared city dwellers.

[BENESSE]

This is a good thread, and the discussion is valid. This brings me back to Charleston SC when Hurricane Hugo hit. We lived about 17 miles from the coast, but the damage and devastation from that one went far inland. We were without power for 22 days after the storm. Our house had city water, and it was off (no pressure) for 5 days, then unfit to drink for 3 days after that. I was prepared, we had food and water, camping gear, all we needed. And of course I was armed and capable of protecting my family. The shocking thing was the totally unprepared state of the majority of the population. I was amazed. Despite continuous warnings from state and local government, a great many people made no preparations at all. They had no survival knowledge to rely on in most cases either. Needless to say I ended up supporting quite a few unprepared neighbors through this. I think that if I was in a more urban setting my attitude towards others would have been much different. You can easily share with a few people you know, but the hungry masses will certainly try and take what you have when they get desperate. I espouse the theory of bugging out of a city environment to a stocked retreat location. I know many will say "Well we all can't afford a place in the country". Of course not. But you don't need one. A few discreet supply caches along a route to the home of a relative or like minded friend in another area is a good start. Pool your supplies and stock that retreat location, or several locations, together. Make a plan and set up egress routes to the retreats. You then have the strength of a cohesive group at a well supplied place, and you avoid the mobs of unprepared city dwellers.

All good advice and quite doable 'til you find yourself on an island of Manhattan with 2 million other people, and 6+ more waiting for you if you're lucky enough to make it out across some bridge or tunnel.
Think high-rise in every direction, no car, no paddle, closest friends & family 4 states away.
I don't just need training to contemplate getting out (or staying put), I need therapy to wrap my mind around it.
Seriously though, this is a unique predicament that calls for unique and specific solutions of which there are few available to us mere mortals.

[TucsonMax]

After an intense research for the last 6 months it's been my observation up to this point that the least has been written on Urban Survival, and by Urban I mean NYC, (the ultimate torture test of survival even under normal circumstances) Chicago, LA, etc. (Ragnar comes close but he needs major updating for the 21st cent.)

I see an enormous opportunity in someone starting Urban Survival "retreats" (right in the city of choice) with the approach of teaching people how to survive staying put much like they are thought how to survive in the Wilderness.

I agree on both points, yes the book should be updated. As far as Urban retreats, even if I learned nothing, just meeting others in the group would be worth the cost of admission.

[dscrick]

All good advice and quite doable 'til you find yourself on an island of Manhattan with 2 million other people, and 6+ more waiting for you if you're lucky enough to make it out across some bridge or tunnel.
Think high-rise in every direction, no car, no paddle, closest friends & family 4 states away.
I don't just need training to contemplate getting out (or staying put), I need therapy to wrap my mind around it.
Seriously though, this is a unique predicament that calls for unique and specific solutions of which there are few available to us mere mortals.

I understand your situation, I've spent considerable time in the big Apple. I guess the only thing you can do is keep a weather eye on the horizon and try to anticipate the coming storm, then maybe get out before it happens.

[TucsonMax]

Ditto, in fact, I almost moved to Tudor City.
The idea of caching (stashing supllies) in Manhattan seems implausable (hence update Ragnar.)

BENESSE: Perhaps you could create some hidden wall-space in one room? Put up a fake wall to conceal a 1ft wide storage area behind you bed, etc. Would involve drywall (in elevators) and landlord issues (if discovered) but would help you store a significant amount. I'm sure your living space is cramped already, but if you look over your place, would "removing" 8-12 inches in exchange for peace-of-mind be worthwhile? Just a suggestion.