Speeding up water settlement

**UnknownWarrior** · 08-14-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by TomChemEngineer

The following chemicals are used as flocculants:[Wikipedia: Flocculation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocculation ]. I know about the chemicals, I don't know about the "natural" products listed.

alum
aluminium chlorohydrate
aluminium sulfate
calcium oxide
calcium hydroxide
iron(III) chloride
iron(II) sulfate
polyacrylamide
polyDADMAC
sodium aluminate
sodium silicate
The following natural products are used as flocculants:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocculation]

Chitosan
Moringa oleifera seeds
Papain
A species of Strychnos (seeds)
Isinglass

In any case, a filter follows flocculation. Swimming pools need periodic treatment with a flocculant, and the filters need to be cleaned frequently after being treated with these. I've done water systems in third world countries, and generally skip flocculation because it generally doesn't make people sick, it is usually just an appearance thing. Chlorination after filtering takes care of any bio-actives.
Sorry, too much chemical information again.

I understood this info perfectly now , last night I skipped reading when it kinda went above my head. I'd like to know which one in the wikipedia list is easy to get, similar to alum?

Do you mean it is OKAY to drink the turbid water if it's boiled / chlorinated and filtered?

**UnknownWarrior** · 08-14-2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ken

For municipal water, you may want to consider tying a swimming pool filter, using food grade diatomaceous earth http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html as a filter medium, into your household plumbing. You should use a back-flow preventor before the filter, and you may want to install a pressure tank after the filter as well. Yeah, it's a bit expensive, but we are talking about something as important as water quality, and it should solve your problem.

For added safety and improved water taste, you could put a second in-line charcoal filter (cannister type) before taps where you will draw drinking/cooking water, and you should be good to go.

Ken, can you please give some more detail and / or some pics (even if you make it manually in mspaint). That will let me picturize it.

**Jay** · 08-15-2009, 04:21 AM

Unknown warrior, this probably wont be of any help to you but as a point of intrest...I use seeds of the horse raddish tree (moringa oleifera) known locally by the name Murunga, and the seed of strychnose potatorum known as "ingini" for clearing muddy water. the sediment settles fast when the crushed seed are added to the water. (20-25 minutes) I usually have a few seeds on one or the other in my survival pack.

**UnknownWarrior** · 08-15-2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Jay

Unknown warrior, this probably wont be of any help to you but as a point of intrest...I use seeds of the horse raddish tree (moringa oleifera) known locally by the name Murunga, and the seed of strychnose potatorum known as "ingini" for clearing muddy water. the sediment settles fast when the crushed seed are added to the water. (20-25 minutes) I usually have a few seeds on one or the other in my survival pack.

I was wondering I might not get them here in India but the name Murunga sounded south-indianish to me and I see it's from sri-lanka.

Moringa Oleifera is a tree which is also native to Northern India.

Good, I'll try to get it, probably will ask someone in Delhi about it.

**TomChemEngineer** · 08-15-2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by UnknownWarrior

I understood this info perfectly now , last night I skipped reading when it kinda went above my head. I'd like to know which one in the wikipedia list is easy to get, similar to alum?

Do you mean it is OKAY to drink the turbid water if it's boiled / chlorinated and filtered?

Hi UK. Alum is usually available in grocery stores near the canning supplies and sometimes in little jars in the spice section. It used to be used in pickling... not sure anymore since I don't pickle. My mom used it to make pickles crunchy. It is a sodium-aluminum sulfate and is probably the easiest to get. Those who are hesitant to use it because it has aluminum in it... well, you have to make that choice. City water supplies use alum to flocculate the water ahead of the sand filters.
You are correct. Turbidity is not necessarily a bad thing if it is after chlorination or boiling, since the bad stuff (bio-actives) associated with the particles would be inactivated by that time. It is not very pretty to drink turbid water, but it won't really hurt you if it is just from clay particles or normal stuff in the water.
The other thing to consider is if the turbidity is from an iron-bacteria that comes out of some wells. The chlorination will take care of that, too, though.
Just my opinion, having done a few water systems.

**UnknownWarrior** · 08-15-2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by TomChemEngineer

Hi UK. Alum is usually available in grocery stores near the canning supplies and sometimes in little jars in the spice section. It used to be used in pickling... not sure anymore since I don't pickle. My mom used it to make pickles crunchy. It is a sodium-aluminum sulfate and is probably the easiest to get. Those who are hesitant to use it because it has aluminum in it... well, you have to make that choice. City water supplies use alum to flocculate the water ahead of the sand filters.

You are correct. Turbidity is not necessarily a bad thing if it is after chlorination or boiling, since the bad stuff (bio-actives) associated with the particles would be inactivated by that time. It is not very pretty to drink turbid water, but it won't really hurt you if it is just from clay particles or normal stuff in the water.
The other thing to consider is if the turbidity is from an iron-bacteria that comes out of some wells. The chlorination will take care of that, too, though.
Just my opinion, having done a few water systems.

Alum is used all over India for treating turbid water, even in the villages. The ony thing is that it has to be used for quite some time for getting a nice clear water. And due to this long time (a few slow circles in the water), the water becomes sour in taste, sometimes even affecting the throat. I hate it as much as the turbid water. I also causes me sneezing.

I tried to use the act. charcoal filter but that one is for the bush so it doesn't remove the turbidity though it does make the water clearer a bit more than direct tap.

Right now I boiled some water and kept it to settle. Other than this I think I do not have much option. It is hard for me to drink water these days, that's why I'm searching for a good and cheap solution.

I did find something tho - the bio-sand filter. It's a one time investment. It might help and I might make one tho it would need some time. Still have to do some reading at http://www.biosand.org

Anyway, thanks for the turbidity info, atleast the boiled water is safe to drink even tho not nice to look at. It's been a long time I'm searching for a nice filter and purifier with cheap costs but ones I got from this forum and other places, well I am not satisfied I would say yet, or could not yet choose for the long term.

Boiling water is okay for sometime for me but not for long. I do not wish to waste fuel everyday ... well unless I'm able to make some solar water heater that works even in cloudy weathers ... and cheap.

Thanks for the info btw.

**UnknownWarrior** · 08-15-2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by edr730

I have settled water often enough, by boiling and siphoning when it was too cloudy, rusty or just plain dirty. It is much much faster than only waiting for it to settle. A fish tank with it's aireator and filter to clean the drinking water, might also serve the purpose if the charcoal is cheap enough. For more clean water, you would need something like a water softener. I used to have two quart size containers in my line with replaceable filters...maybe something like that would work for you. But nothing will last long.

If edr730, or anyone else, can detail me this fish tank filter, it would be great.

**edr730** · 08-19-2009, 11:30 AM

I don't have plans and I've never tried it or seen anyone who has. I felt a small pump would save labor, money and electricity and water filtered and aerated 20 times should be better than once. Someone has probably already done something similar. The diatomaceous earth suggested by Ken (and the entire system) seemed like the best idea, but not on a shoe string budget. The fish tank filter may work fine, but is not a high quality filter. You would need to see how well the fish tank filtered the water, then improve the system by experimenting with aerators, and better larger filters or filter medium as you learn. People at this site have some very good ideas about filters and filter mediums and similar information has been discussed. Check it out. An old food safe five gal. bucket that held pickles or other food would work as a reservoir for the drinking water. I suspect a 4 ft 4 inch PVC pipe filled with filter medium would make a good filter. A connection between the bucket and filter, at the bottom would fill the drinking water reservoir. Put an overflow tube on top and a faucet on the bottom of the bucket. You could simply pour water in the filter tube, use the pump to continually filter or make the system automatic. The system could be connected to your plumbing and made automatic fairly simple with the addition of salvaged parts from a refrigerator with an ice maker. I think the biggest problem may be the volume and speed of flow from the pump which could make the filter tube and bucket overflow. Double stacked, cheap 6 dollar timers for the pump would solve the problem.

**Rick** · 08-19-2009, 01:20 PM

Can't you just filter your drinking water through cloth? That should trap a large portion of the suspended particulate.

**Ken** · 08-19-2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by UnknownWarrior

Ken, can you please give some more detail and / or some pics (even if you make it manually in mspaint). That will let me picturize it.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Whole-Ho...alth&id=707038

As an alternative, here's one example of the diatomaceous earth primary filter I suggested earlier. Simply tie the incoming water line to the intake and connect your indoor plumbing to the outlet. MAKE SURE YOU USE FOOD GRADE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH and NOT regular pool filter D.E. The filter is priced at $295.00.

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http://secure.poolcenter.com/prodinfo.asp?number=180050

Here is what an in-line charcoal filter looks like. There are dozens of types on the market. I have one connected to each of my ice makers. The installation is very simple to complete.

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