What if "WE" are ALL 100% WRONG in our preperations...????

[Pal334]

I have never been an advocate of the "full dress rehearsal". I agree that practice makes perfect, however I like practicing the individual tasks to a level of competence . I have seen too many times where a group that has gone the "full dress rehearsal" route inadvertently assumes that the rehearsal would be the flow when stuff happens. And that causes indecision at awkward times. When we concentrated on task training it seemed easier to remember and apply skills. Now of course I am writing this from an urban perspective and from military experience.. If I was living in a country/wilderness setting, I am sure my approach would be different since opportunities for practice can or could be almost a daily occurance and virtually a way of life. Just my opinion

[Schleprok]

We practice bugging in, not on a regular basis, just whenever the hurricane strikes. Last time was Ivan. No power for a week. No ice available (had ice stored in the deep freeze). Day 3 saw National Guard giving one bag of ice, one case of water, one case of MREs if you had the time and gas to wait in line. Gas rationing in the 70s had shorter lines. 12vdc fan and window screens helped. Coal oil lamp to read by. Spare batteries for the teenagers walkman, game thingy, etc.
One of the biggest problems noted was lack of light in a windowless bathroom. Now I have updated to solar walklights outside. Easily removed and placed in the bathroom during power outages. Recharge during the day. Hopefully we won't drill again this year, but are prepared if necessary.

[crashdive123]

Here’s my thoughts on it. Who defines a fulfilling life? As the saying goes – beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so does it go to define ones own success. Hope – I admire the life you live. I don’t envy it, but admire the fact that you are doing the things that are fulfilling to you. The things that you want to accomplish while still here. By the same token, I admire the life that Rick is living. Again, it is his life therefore his to define. I often reflect on the things I’ve done. I’ve made decisions, or turns in my life that led me to where I am today. At the times of those decisions I thought many were good. I also thought that many were bad. Regardless, they are the choices that I made that define me today. The 20+ years I spent in the military were not arduous by many standards, yet the vast majority of personnel in the Navy were not qualified or capable of doing it. The profession that I have chosen today is certainly not what I consider difficult. I take great pleasure in what I do both professionally and personally. The activities that I participate in give me a balance in my life. Be it hiking in the woods, sailing on an open ocean, helping a customer with a difficult situation, volunteering at one of the local homeless shelters, serving on various committees or boards. I am where I am because of the choices I made. I have no regrets on those choices. Helping an elderly neighbor gives me as much pleasure as a long stroll in the forest. As far as doing and practicing or “boots in the field” as you talked about in your first post….I couldn’t agree with you more. Doing a job well takes patience and practice. Not sure if this is the sort of thing you are looking for, but my thoughts anyway.

[Ken]

One other point. When I was in charge of the local EMA and worked for the state EMA, I ran several "exercises" - table top rehearsals, dress rehearsals, and full blown field rehearsals. Trained "outsiders" would constantly notify us of a spectrum of developing "incidents" that we had to respond to during the course of the exercise.

I also directed responses to the real thing on numerous occassions.

That type of experience tends to make a permanent impression on you. The skills become second nature - an instinctive response, if you will. When you only have to worry about yourself, your family, and a few close friends, it's a lot easier than taking care of an entire community.

[crashdive123]

That attitude regarding training that was instilled into me early in my career was You had better train the way you are going to fight, because you will most assuredly fight the way you train. It's kind of the way I view training and practice still.

[Sourdough]

I wish some others would chime in. This is a good thread and a good subject. It deserves to have some fresh ideas injected.

Hope I am not whipping a tried horse. But why can't people take an ice cold shower one day a week. Or eat nothing for 36 hours. or don't use bug dope one day. go without coffee or booze for a week. Anything to experience some level of hardship and discomfort. Or live with no door on the outhouse.

[crashdive123]

Hope I am not whipping a tried horse. But why can't people take an ice cold shower one day a week. Or eat nothing for 36 hours. or don't use bug dope one day. go without coffee or booze for a week. Anything to experience some level of hardship and discomfort. Or live with no door on the outhouse.

For me - because I have and know that I'll be just fine. I don't feel that it is something that I need to practice. Does leaving the bathroom door open count?

[Ken]

Hope I am not whipping a tried horse.Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. (Smiley added by Ken) But why can't people take an ice cold shower one day a week. Or eat nothing for 36 hours. or don't use bug dope one day. go without coffee or booze for a week. Anything to experience some level of hardship and discomfort. Or live with no door on the outhouse.

[ X ] Cold Shower - during the summer
[ X ] No Food 36 Hours
[ X ] No Bug Dope
[ X ] No Booze for a Week
[... ] No Coffee for a Week
[... ] No Outhouse Door
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.(No outhouse at all)

[DOGMAN]

Life isn't a spectator sport, to me, this exercise is not about comfort/discomfort, its about self-denial and self-examination. We all know we can go a few days without food, and survive a cold shower or a night in the woods without shelter. We know this, because we may have done it previously or we've read about or watched people on television, that we view as weaker and dumber, do it. So, we say- "I've done it before, so I can do it again" or, we say "If that guy can do it, I can do it"

And, you are probably right- You can do it. You can get through it, you can survive.

But, what if you never have to. What if you just die in your sleep an old man, and never tested yourself, other than that one time back in college or while in the Army. Are the last 40 years of your life going to be spent, passively watching the television and reminescing about the first 40...or are you going to be active and create more stories.

The path of self-denial is an insighful path. Not only does it show you your strengths, and show you what you can do....more importantly it makes you confront your weaknesses and shows you want you cant do.

Plus its spiritual....it makes you feel alive! Its like skinning a knee, or having your first love break your heart. It makes you feel, it makes you think, it makes you live!

[Rick]

@ Jason - For you. That's your definition. But I think Crash's explanation is just as valid. We learn from each other's experiences and we can only do that when each of us have different experiences. The gal that spends her life as an ER doctor or the guy that spends his life volunteering to Boy Scouts both find their experience rewarding or they wouldn't do it.

But, what if you never have to. What if you just die in your sleep an old man, and never tested yourself, other than that one time back in college or while in the Army. Are the last 40 years of your life going to be spent, passively watching the television and reminescing about the first 40...or are you going to be active and create more stories.

If I die an old man in my sleep, I'll consider myself extremely lucky. It could have been a car wreck at 30 or 20 or 17. And I won't be reminiscing about the previous 40 years. I seldom look backward. My vision is forward looking. My point is we don't all share the same vision or quest for self test. I don't need to put myself on the line to feel alive. I can quietly sit and watch my grandkids or birds or fish or putter in the garden and feel pretty good about my life. It's the little things that add value for me. Anyone can step out of an airplane but I'll NEVER understand why they do it.

That doesn't make your opinion or view any less valid, however.

[rat31465]

gotcha, must have been getting well above freezing during the day. In my experience a freezer full of solidly frozen one pound blocks of meat don't need ice on them unless the outside temperature gets above 40 or so for a full day.
About the dog getting into your ice chest...tie a rope or a NRS strap around it to keep is sealed and keep the critters out

Actually the temp stayed in the high 20's throughout the days and as for the ice chest...thats exactly what we did after the fact of course. What is strange is that our back yard was surrounded by a six foot privacy fence on two sides and a chain link fence on the other. I saw the dog who broke into our provisions leap the chain link fence like it was nothing.

[Sourdough]

I saw the dog who broke into our provisions leap the chain link fence like it was nothing.

Moose jump a 6' fence, with ease, and from a standing start. It is something to watch a 1/2 ton of moose gracefully leap so high.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

you have a good point hopeak.

a couple days without my comfort foods and my gadgetry takes away some of the confidence that those things give.
without an alturnative,or replacement survival gets tough.
most of my equipment is just "luxury"items that provide comfort.(i mean the mosquito nets,tents,mre's,multi-tools)

primative survival techniques.(its provided for me by nature) is how i train myself.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i have friends that wear noeprene divers suits in the winter under thier clothes so even swimming in ice water they should be ok.
is that intelligent necessity?or comfort food overkill? you tell me!

[Ken]

i have friends that wear noeprene divers suits in the winter under thier clothes so even swimming in ice water they should be ok.
is that intelligent necessity?or comfort food overkill? you tell me!

I've had a bit of experience swimming in icy water. Never thought of a dry suit as overkill. It prevents things like, uhhh, cardiac arrest. I suspect that NOT wearing one would have killed me.

[Sourdough]

I have never been an advocate of the "full dress rehearsal". I agree that practice makes perfect, however I like practicing the individual tasks to a level of competence . I have seen too many times where a group that has gone the "full dress rehearsal" route inadvertently assumes that the rehearsal would be the flow when stuff happens. And that causes indecision at awkward times. When we concentrated on task training it seemed easier to remember and apply skills. Now of course I am writing this from an urban perspective and from military experience.. If I was living in a country/wilderness setting, I am sure my approach would be different since opportunities for practice can or could be almost a daily occurance and virtually a way of life. Just my opinion

I am not advocating people do "full dress rehearsals". I am advocating, first buy some survival stuff, and also study and learn. And, that one important segment of the learning/study/practice is regular experience of being miserable (Cold, wet, exhausted, and under pressure). I understand Ricks point, I just disagree with it.

[Pal334]

I am not advocating people do "full dress rehearsals". I am advocating, first buy some survival stuff, and also study and learn. And, that one important segment of the learning/study/practice is regular experience of being miserable (Cold, wet, exhausted, and under pressure). I understand Ricks point, I just disagree with it.

Aaah,, one of the nice parts of our society, we can agree to disagree And if we are honest, walk away from the disagreement learning something inspite of our best efforts.

[Sourdough]

i have friends that wear noeprene divers suits in the winter under thier clothes so even swimming in ice water they should be ok.
is that intelligent necessity?or comfort food overkill? you tell me!

I think your missing my point see post # 56. Your lifestyle is part of what I am saying is necessary. People don't need to do it everyday. But that part of being prepared is knowing you can get through the event. That part of the practice is to practice being miserable, and uncomfortable.

[Ken]

I am not advocating people do "full dress rehearsals". I am advocating, first buy some survival stuff, and also study and learn. And, that one important segment of the learning/study/practice is regular experience of being miserable (Cold, wet, exhausted, and under pressure). I understand Ricks point, I just disagree with it.

I had a one-day trial on Monday. It was pouring out and I had to park 3 blocks from the courthouse. I didn't bring a raincoat (they tend to disappear once you take them off in court) and I never use those sissy umbrellas. The outcome of the trial, though short, would have caused my client, a military guy, to be separated from the service had we lost. So I was "Cold", "Wet", "Under Pressure", and "kinda tired" . Do 3½ out of 4 count?

[Sourdough]

I had a one-day trial on Monday. It was pouring out and I had to park 3 blocks from the courthouse. I didn't bring a raincoat (they tend to disappear once you take them off in court) and I never use those sissy umbrellas. The outcome of the trial, though short, would have caused my client, a military guy, to be separated from the service had we lost. So I was "Cold", "Wet", "Under Pressure", and "kinda tired" . Do 3½ out of 4 count?

Well, thats kind of the idea, would have been better if the the trial lasted 16 continuous hours, and was held outdoors, at 33 degrees, driving rain, and 55 MPH wind, no food, no drink, and for full effect you could slam your fingers in the door. But, you got the general idea.