Fukushima levels are exploding HIGHER. So what is the plan in event of another catastrophic earthquake & title wave......???
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...-rise-2200-msv
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Fukushima levels are exploding HIGHER. So what is the plan in event of another catastrophic earthquake & title wave......???
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...-rise-2200-msv
There is no plan. Everyone involved is scrambling to figure out where the next band aid should be applied over a gaping wound.
The pathetic part of all of this is that this scenario was absolutely foreseeable and could have been prevented with better (MORE EXPENSIVE) engineering and safety features. But THAT would have cut into corporate profits and/or made nuclear power prohibitively expensive compared to alternative methods of electricity generation. So the regulatory authorities in Japan (just as they do here) let a shoddy system slide by, gambling on probability at the expense of possibility.
The sad thing is, let the odds beat you only one time - just one - and the financial damages alone - never mind the needless deaths and lives destroyed by illness - will make the cost of a well designed SAFE system pale by comparison.
A few years back, Hess tried to build the largest LNG offloading terminal and storage facility ever to have been built in the nation just 3,171' from my home. Hess wanted us to TRUST that their technology would prevent a containment breach and an potential explosion that would have incinerated my home and the homes of about 50,000 other residents in the area. Screw them.
Where this stops, nobody knows? I am several thousand miles away, and only casually familiar with the science behind nuclear power. But I have read several reports which led me to believe there were multiple radioactive hotspots which were too hot for man or machine. With one or more containment breaches this could easily get worse. In fact the meters were reading "over limit" so no one could document what the actual radiation levels really were. They only know what they exceed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sourdough
I really feel for my family and friends in Alaska. They're in the bull's-eye for airborne, seaborne, and bio-accumulation contamination. So many ways for these highly contaminated particles to migrate pose eminent health hazards. If this thing goes bang, and I guess it depends a lot on the specifics of that event, the northern hemisphere MAY become largely uninhabitable. Certainly enough waste at Fukushima to create lethal hazards around the globe. Some "experts" feel the equatorial bias will prevent a lot of the radiation from migrating into the southern hemisphere. But who really knows? If you have the means and inclination you might consider getting to someplace "down under".
Since Australia has banned firearms, I'm personally ruling them out. New Zealand a good choice perhaps, but I suspect my most likely choice would be Chile, Argentina, or Uruguay. The banking laws in Chile and Uruguay are reportedly better than the ones here in the US of A. Healthcare is affordable and more accessible in any of the three. And real estate is still reported to be very affordable in all three, but especially Argentina. Maybe we should Google up a pub in Buenos Aires for a rendezvous point?
Why not Alabama? We don't have any nuclear plants on fault.......okay, bad idea.......
Beats me how humankind has come so far and yet seemingly learnt so little :crying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
They cut corners to make money and banked on the next disaster not being too bad. They lost and millions of other people are paying the price. Just like the old saying, socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us.
Glad to see some fresh ideas on how to solve the issue. There is truly nothing like flogging a deceased steed to make a positive impact. How this relates to wilderness survival or outdoors in general is a bit beyond me. Aren't there forums that deal with gloom and doom that would be more appropriate?
I'll try to explain.:art:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Gloom and doom makes you want to run off to the wilderness where you get to practice all the stuff we talk about here.
Rick, I don't believe that the intent here is to flog a dead steed, and I don't believe that any of us here have the technical know-how to offer solutions to the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
The issue here is the fact that TEPCO and the Japanese government are intentionally concealing the magnitude of the CURRENT status of the catastrophe, thereby placing the public at greater risk of harm.
IMHO, suggesting that we should offer solutions is like suggesting that the victim of a gunshot wound is responsible for effecting their own treatment and recovery and should not criticize the assailant that fired the shot.
I have a partial solution to the problem. Here it is: Government should ban, restrict, and/or halt any corporate or other activity that has the potential to fail at a catastrophic level unless the technology is shown to be virtually fail-safe. Ask the residents in the affected Fukushima region - and those beyond the immediate area who will also be harmed - how they feel about the government approvals given to TEPCO and the earlier determinations by government "experts" that the associated risks were acceptable.
And really, when Sourdough goes salmon fishing next season, do you think he may just be wondering if the contamination level of his catch is below the limit considered to be safe? Debris from the Japanese earthquake and tsunami reached our west coast in short order. Is the radioactive contamination on its way? Has some of it already arrived? As outdoorspeople, shouldn't our members be concerned about that?
I'm allowed to shoot my rifle at a firing range because - if I follow the rules - the risk to the public is minimal. I can't engage in that activity on a crowded street simply because, no matter how good my skills are regardless of the fact that I'm not aiming at any human being, the risk of harm to the public is simply not acceptable.
Corporations - even those offering "solutions" to the needs of the public - have no right to place the public at substantial risk of death, catastrophic loss, or environmental disaster. Unrestricted technology with disastrous potential of any form - think TEPCO and nuclear energy OR Monsanto and GMO's and cancer and bee population annihilation - often poses a greater risk to the earth and humanity than the problem it purports to solve. Those of us who are real or potential victims of government regulatory agencies and corporations that determine such risks to be "acceptable" have every reason in the world to challenge such activities.
This topic has as much to do with wilderness survival as do topics like "bugging-in" and "get home bags." Rather than planning on how to cope with a disaster, isn't is better to avoid an unacceptable risk of disaster in the first place? Wouldn't millions of Japanese agree with that thought?
My point is that exactly. We now have three threads on the same subject and no solution is going to be found in these pages. We bemoan the same problem over and over in multiple threads. You're only option here is to cope with it. How on earth do you expect to "avoid an unacceptable risk"? More to the point, there are dozens of superfund sites right here in the US that pose just as much of a problem and probably more since the proximity and time to proximity is much closer and greater. Yet, no one is clamoring about Hanford, Nuclear Metals, Santa Susana Field Lab (3rd largest radioactive iodine leak in history), open pit PCB burning and others.
This is little more than regurgitating the same thing over and over and everyone venting about it. I just don't see the point.
The "point", I believe, is that not everyone is blessed with your broad scope of knowledge. In fact it is often the case that these things are under-reported or classified so there is no informed public to deal with. I am sure you have considerable experience and information for which I am completely oblivious. But remember it works both ways. Are you suggesting there is nothing we can do? Should we just sweep it under the rug and ignore it? I imagine we all would prefer to just ignore the problem, but it won't resolve anything. There's not much chance that the words exchanged here will have a meaningful impact on a solution. But there is still that chance that it could. I prefer slim odds to none at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Despite your continued condescending attitude...I'm suggesting we post on what the damned forum is about. If you have gloom and doom crap peddle it elsewhere! Is that plain enough?
I stand corrected, there are now 27 threads on this crap and there is nothing you can do to solve it! Write you Congressman.
Cast-iron gave a solution......move to Argentina.
So in your own words this is a "damned forum"? Hmmmm???Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Is there a condescending attitude here? If so could it possibly be yours? Yours for suggesting our concerns over radioactive spills are "crap"? Yours for believing we can do nothing to stop the proliferation of war or the expansion of radioactive/environmental threats, when it is you who attempts to block open discourse on the subject. No one is compelled to read or contribute here. If a topic receives twenty-something threads than I would think that it suggests this is of some importance to a number of members. Maybe not you, but this isn't all about you is it? Resolution might well be achieved through overwhelming public pressure placed upon our elected leaders. Public pressure builds through the exchange of information and ideas like those shared here in this forum. I have contacted each of my elected officials in congress twice in this past week alone. Your suggestion is good advice we should all follow! But it takes many of us acting with one voice if we're to succeed in changing policy.
I don't mind folks posting on current events. I don't mind discussions on things that can affect us. I don't see the need for the same 3-4 people posting on the same 3-4 items over and over. The forum has moved too far into the political field and we need to pull the reins in. We operated just fine for a lot of years and suddenly posts have gone over the brink. Time to refocus.
I find it interesting that this is NOT the top news story in the world. I think there is much to be learned from this event, and how the local civilian population reacts. There may be little we can do, but watch and learn. This is already affecting the tuna that we eat in America. As to this forums choice of subjects, I would rather we were talking about this than all the hundreds of threads about RICK'S thong.
With a lot of family on the west coast in BC and Alaska and even into the North West Territories... it's a topic that holds some significance for me as well. I also find it baffling that this isn't being covered far more in main stream media.
By not allowing the conditions that create the risks - such as the operation of TEPCO plants and the production of Monsanto GMOs - to continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
SD - Why is it you never post anything on your extensive outdoor experience? You probably have more experience in the wild than most of the forum members combined yet your posts focus on over the top events like sun spots and radiation levels half a world away. Why don't you talk about your favorite tent, the worse summer time conditions to get caught in while in the bush, the gear you HAVE to have with you when you are guiding, what you did when food ran low, what you had to do when the weather turned bad, what to do when your plane can't pick you up? The list is endless and would probably help a lot of folks that might run into trouble in the woods. There are 27 threads on Fukushima of which you started 13. Couldn't you just use the same thread?
There are no threads on "my hong". There are many posts on it by many members in an effort to inject humor into the forum. However, please take a look at the threads I've started and you'll find the overwhelming majority have to do with outdoors, gardening, homesteading and outdoor crafts.
Oddmott - I don't know one way or the other but when mainstream media doesn't pick up a story it's usually because it's not a news worthy event.
Ken - Please tell me how you can do that on this forum?
None of us can, Rick. However, we can use the Forums to communicate with established "friends" and educate ourselves. We can use that education for whatever further action we feel is appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
For whatever it's worth, I also believe that Sourdough's post reminded and informed our west coast members of the increasing risk from the TEPCO disaster.
And honestly, I probably won't be eating as much Pacific tuna as I have in the past.
As I said in 15 above I have no heartburn with that. General Chat is for exactly that kind of stuff. My only heartburn is the number of threads created on the same subject. Unfortunately, we don't stop with "higher levels detected" or whatever the headline is. We continue on with what liars they are, how government can't be trusted, etc. It finds it's way into every thread and just rehashes the same thing. That is my heartburn.
And I'm speaking as a forum member, not a mod. I have no intention of deleting anything unless it crosses the line of politics, religion or against someone.
Does that mean that I can't use the Forums to campaign for Sourdough for President in 2016?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I... I don't even know what to say to that except ask, "Was that a joke?" The number of significant domestic and worldwide events that are completely ignored by our Western media is absolutely astounding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
A very short list just from memory...
- Rwanda genocide 1994
- East Timor conflict 1999
- Haliburton selling Nuke Tech to Iran 2005
- Prez Bush eliminating data sources about the increasing homeless/poverty levels 2006
- Congo Genocide 2004-2007
- U.S. Operatives torturing Afghan/Iraq detainees to death 2003-?
- World Bank funding Israel/Palestine Wall
- Every study ever about the dangers of Fracking
And there's thousands more, as important and many even more important, that I have forgotten about or never even heard of, because I had to turn myself off of media about 7 years ago.
I was a journalist, until i realized that nearly all journalists, aren't. I had the epiphany at 3am one day and never went back to that job/career ever again. I couldn't reconcile my moral structure with what the job/industry allowed. I could never be the investigative catalyst I'd grown up dreaming of being, so I had to walk away.
I want to be a investigative journalist or a columnist. In fact, if a newspaper paid me what I earn now, I'd never walk into a courtroom again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddmott
The kind of investigations and columns I'd like to write would be about FOOD. Kinda' like a Phantom Gourmet.
Just imagine..... getting PAID to go out to restaurants and eat FREE MEALS at your employer's expense and then have the opportunity to tell the world about it!
"The pate arrived at our table shortly after we had devoured our caviar..........." :innocent:
Ken - Exceptions can always be hammered out.
Oddmott - I'm not debating that either and no it wasn't a joke. All media outlets are in business for one thing....money. If they don't have a compelling reason for folks to read them then they don't sell advertising and they don't make money. Simple as that. The gloom and doom sites are no different. They don't care about world events, they care about selling advertising or enticing you to buy or invest in something. None of them are altruistic.
This radiation deal directly effects my wilderness survival habits. Will I still be able to count on limpets, sea cucumbers, fish, and crab as a source of food? If not, I may as well live somewhere else. :eyore:
Yes I truly agree...Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE
Nobody is saying that this situation is not important. Nobody is saying we shouldn't discuss it. Nobody is saying that for some it could be a matter of survival. I believe Rick's point is/was that we have 23 open threads on this. I suppose I could merge them all into one, but what's the point? The same things are being said in most, if not all of them.
We should all be concerned about the situation. The problem - in addition to the multiple threads with the same discussion is that it always degenerates into greedy this, evil that and political whatever.
Rather than that, why not do the research and take the thread in the direction of ...... this is what can be don to monitor radiation levels in our waters and food, or this is how you can tell if your food is safe. Years ago mercury was the in vogue scare. What did we do? We relied on USDA and other agencies to perform testing. While I understand that the food we harvest ourselves won't be tested......neither was the seafood that was potentially high in mercury. I'm sure there is plenty of research going on to that end, but we always revert back to the same old finger pointing, which in turn often leads down the path of political discussions.
Holy molely Rick, I thought your hong was a joke, I didn't know you actually have one.
Several but yeah. The camo one even messes me up.
@ Crash - 'Zactly.
I imagine the camo one originally started out bright white. LOL
Just don't ask to see his paracord hong. On the second Jamboree he broke it out, and well - I still have nightmares.
I ain't asking nothing, no way.
I guess it's a matter of what a "safe" level of radiation is and when/if it's gonna hit the coast here at dangerous levels.
This is pretty informative. The animation half way down the page scares me a little.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/...radiation.html
Here's another source to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
http://www.dec.state.ak.us/eh/fss/Fo...ation_news.htm
I believe, frankly, that there is absolutely no way to keep humanity from going in that direction. The solution is going to include such things as community, preservation of communities with survival ethics, a hardheaded avoidance of postmodern and post-postmodern laissez-faire morality, and a commitment to individual health. The healthier you are, the more likely you are to survive environmental assaults.
This is another good example of why so many threads on a subject is not a good thing. Many links have been provided throughout the threads that shows who's monitoring what, where and why. With so many threads no one can possibly keep track of it all.
Some items you might find of interest.
http://www.fda.gov/ucm/groups/fdagov.../ucm253896.pdf
http://juneauempire.com/opinion/2013...s#.Uiful9KThZ8
Scroll down on this one for Alaska and Hawaii
http://radiationnetwork.com/
http://dhss.alaska.gov/dph/Emergency...iological.aspx
http://www.epa.gov/japan011/rert/radnet-juneau-bg.html
http://www.ims.uaf.edu/orion/
http://www.dec.state.ak.us/air/am/rad/radinfo.htm
There's a lot of conflicting reports.
As long as the EPA says it's OK. (like GMO's) and the governement says it's harmless (like agent orange), I guess I shouldn't worry.
Or, trust no one and eat nothing. That should work for a couple of weeks.
Okay, I read this entire thread and now I am afraid to jump in the ocean, eat sea food, and will have nightmares of glowing wilderness creatures chasing me through the woods in a not too far off world wide wasteland.
I have stopped watching all news and it is still slipping through the door. I guess there is just no escaping it other than going off grid or dying:angry: