To tell you the truth, the 10 essentials list is a bit confusing to me. It seems like every list I see claiming to be the 10 essentials contains different items from the next list. Does anyone know who invented the 10 essentials list?
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To tell you the truth, the 10 essentials list is a bit confusing to me. It seems like every list I see claiming to be the 10 essentials contains different items from the next list. Does anyone know who invented the 10 essentials list?
Rick Your answer accordin to Wkipedia
The Ten Essentials were first described in the 1930s by The Mountaineers, a hiking and mountain climbing club.
The Web link about it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials
I was curious too as its in my Scout Book.
REI, a sponsor of this site, gives this input in their "Expert Advice" section:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
http://www.rei.com/LearnShareDetailA...ssentialsf.jsp
Wikpedia has been known to have the wrong info at times, so I go right to the source. Basically, the "10 Essentials" kit was just a fore-runner to a survival kit for a backpacker to carry on their belt so in case they lost their pack they would have "back-up" gear.:cool:
Well, how 'bout that. Thanks Proud American. I back tracked the wiki article to the group called The Mountaineers. A group started in 1906 and still active! Here is a link to their web site with their ten essentials listed:
http://www.mountaineers.org/scriptco...ert=essentials
Sarge - Thanks. It's the same list as REI has.
The Mountaineers have some very good books on all aspects of Outdoor activities. There books on 1st aid, for example, is tops! As I've mentioned elsewhere, my kid Brother likes to climb mountains so I keep in touch with all the mountain-climbing stuff. POINT: Survival gear has been with us for some time, although not always called by that name. On a "day-hike you might carry either a "10-E" kit or a "Survival" kit, but a Rose by any other name...:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
What do you think every wilderness first aid kit should include?
A nurse but that's just my opinion.:rolleyes:
Okay, jeepers.
assorted band aids
steri strips (they tell me these things are illegal in some locations)
gauze pad
anti diarrhea pills
benedryl tablets (allergy)
ibuprofen (or your choice, aspirin, etc.)
Neosporin (antibiotic)
curved suture needle
tweezers
a couple of cough drops
Everything else I can improvise from my pack.
A Nurse, :D I would take a doctor
Anyway.......
Assorted Woven Bandages
Plasters, Range Of Sizes
Antibiotics
Pressure Bandage (For Spraines and so on)
Triangular Bandage
Anti-Septic Cream
Anti-Septic Solutions (Eye wash etc...)
Tweesers
Painkillers
Saftey Pins, Assorted Needles, Intra-venous drip needle
Medical Handbook
Superglue
Forsepts
Scalpel+Spare Blades
Blood Clotting Solution (Thickens blood if poured in would and stops it gushing out)
Iodine (Has other uses but i keep some in my medical kit also)
Flu and other little things like vitamins.....
Alcohol
& a strange one but if im going with a friend i take along a bottle of really strong alcohol like vodka, whisky...... , Numbs the pain alot if you get drunk (Yes there are risks to that but there are times when it comes in handy also)
Beo, ya should know beter than to talk of a fellow Ranger like that no matter what ya think. Yes he could let his product speak for itself but he was a Ranger, respect is warrented. Shame on ya Beo, ya get a gully whomp when we hook up :D And RR knows nothing of Beo, my monies on him (my bro Beo) if'n they ever were to meet and RR stepped up to him, but then again I'd stop what might happen, hand them both a beer and we'd talk of the Ranger days and part as Rangers should, with respect and friendship between all.
Sorry for post'n to an old thread.
Dang, Tony. 1. I ain't going hiking with you. 2. I ain't drinkin' with you. Not with that mess of stuff. Lord only knows where pieces parts would be replanted when I sobered up. Toes where my ears were. Nose under my arm. That ain't right.
LOL, Thats not what i take with me thats just some stuff you could consider to include, It depends on where im going what i take and if im going with other people, a basic shop bought medi-kit id fine also
Oh, I wasn't worried about what you carried in your kit. I was worried when you said,
That's that part that scared me.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Well it does, if you have ever seen someone reall drunk then you know they become disorintated, thats what makes the sensation of pain dull
Sure. And while I'm all disoriented which one of those tools in that first aid kit gets used first? No, I pass that you.:o
Hmmmmm the Scalpel ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
The kit the Forestry Service issues us goes something like this (made for up to 4 people)
8 ER Food Bars
12 Water Boxes w/ Straws
4 Thermal Blankets
4 Ponchos with hoods
4 Tissue Packs
2 Pair Work Gloves
1 Tube Tent
50 Water Purification Tablets
4 Dusk Masks
2 Pair Vinyn Gloves
1 AM/FM Solar Radio & Flashlight with Generator
1 EMR First Aid Kit
4 12 Hour Lighsticks
1 Can Opener
1 Nylon Cord 50 feet
4 Out-of-state Contact Cards
1 Multi-function Swiss Army Knife (crap but better than nutt'n)
1 Box Waterproof Matches
5 Emergency Candles
12 Sanitation/Toilet Bags
1 Pakage Toilet Chemicals
1 Roll Duct Tape
2 Safety Whistles
1 Can of Bear Mace (yes the stuff works for a minute or two, most bears will run off)
The first aid kit has:
REFERENCES: (1) 72 pg. AMA first aid guide, (1) emergency phone number reference (in case of cell phone)
INSTRUMENTS: (1) scissors, (1) tweezers, (4)vinyl gloves (1) scalpel
INJURY TREATMENT: (1) instant cold compress, (1) triangular bandage, (1)1/2" x 10 yds. roll adhesive tape, (1) 12" x 5" splint wire frame
BANDAGES: (30) adhesive fabric, (1) 2" x 4.5 yd. conforming gauze roll, (3) knuckle fabric, (3) fingertip fabric, (3) 2" x 4" elbow & knee bandage
DRESSINGS: (3) 2" x 3" non-stick pads, (4)2" x 2" gauze pads, (4) 3" x 3" gauze pads, (4) 4" x 4" gauze pads, (2) sterile eye pads
MEDICINE: (20) Ibuprofen tablets (you don't want too much here so you don't dull the senses, gotta stay awake and alert)
ANTISEPTICS: (15) alcohol cleansing pads, (9) antiseptic wipes, (6) iodine infection control wipe, (3) insect sting relief pads, (4) triple antibiotic ointment packs
PACKAGED: 1 Durable Red Nylon Backpack
Do you get a real live donkey to carry it or do the 4 of you just drag it along?:D
we work in two man teams, sometimes alone for days on end. It comes in backpack but the donkey would be nice :D Its for the "Nature Lovers" who hike around and know nothing of the outdoors and then get lost or injured, but its nice to have.
That's a lot of stuff but I'll bet it's pretty compact. There isn't a lot of big stuff in there. That crank radio is probably the biggest. Still, I'll bet you had that trimmed down a bit.
That's what they issue you, some stuff you toss out, radio included. Up in the deep mountains you pretty much wing it for radio traffic. I threw in a 5" x 5" mirror and 21 square inch blaze orange reflection panel, and go nowhere without my knife, hatchet, and axe (kept in truck unless staying overnight in the woods) and flint and striker.
Hey put that on necklace :D jk I know bad joke.
FVR probably carries his "Wilderness 1st aid" kit in a bottle...of Wild Turkey! :D I think that everybody will be a bit different; a Dr., for example might carry syringes and different injectable medicines. I have a nice-sized Atwater-Carey 1st aid kit, a few small store-bought ones, a nice, larger, store-bought one, and a big home-made job for those Auto-camping trips. Everything is relative, (Groucho vioice) "and if you got a relative who's a Doctor along with you that's even better!":rolleyes:
Rick,for you ,he'll use the forceps:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
See? There are other people in this world that think like me. Scary!
Do you get a real live donkey to carry it or do the 4 of you just drag it along?
-------------------------------------------------
You don't use a donkey. Get yourself a pack dog.
and no nurse get a female doctor.
In addition to what's already listed, I add:
1 - 15 gr. CELOX Hemostatic Agent
1 Emergency Bandage - Military 6" Version (can be used 1 handed)
after Celox and a gauze pad is applied.
Or as a tourniquet (be careful)
Snake Bite Kit
Iodine Sticks
pack of 2 Aspirins (asprin, because it can be used as a blood thinner for CA)
Has anyone ever used a snake bite kit? I've researched these things quite a bit and the best I can find is a lot of conflicting information about how beneficial they are. I would really like to hear from anyone that had to use one and/or any herpetologists that might be on here.
About the only consensus I can find is a snake bite should never be cut to try and remove the venom. That only adds a bleeding wound to a snake bite.
Here are my thoughts as naive and uneducated as they might be.
1. To me, trying to pull the venom out using a negative pressure device is like trying to pull out the medicine from a shot you just received. That doesn't seem to make sense although I'll be the first to admit I may be completely wrong.
2. Most North American snakes are not poisonous so you might do more harm than good.
3. If you know the snake is poisonous then you're going to have to seek medical assistance so why waste time fooling around with trying to suck out the venom when you could be moving toward a hospital by whatever means.
My snake bite kit is over 25 years old, and is the best made one I've ever seen. It's a thumb size very thick piece of rubber that opens in half. There is a small surgical scalpel inside, which you should never use! You should only use one of the rubber half's to make a strong suction. this one is lite and strong enough that it will stay in place, even when walking. You can also use your belt or paracord to make a type of bandage (a few inches above the bite). It should not cut off blood flow from a vein or artery. Make the bandage tight yet loose enough that your finger can get under it. This will only (hopefully) slow down the toxin until you get help.
According to the American Red Cross, these steps should be taken:
* Wash the bite with soap and water.
* Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart.
* Get medical help.
"The main thing is to get to a hospital and don't delay," says Hardy. "Most bites don't occur in real isolated situations, so it is feasible to get prompt [medical care]." He describes cases in Arizona where people have caught rattlesnakes for sport and gotten bitten. "They waited until they couldn't stand the pain anymore and finally went to the hospital after the venom had been in there a few hours. But by then, they'd lost an opportunity for [effective treatment]," which increased the odds of long-term complications. Some medical professionals, along with the American Red Cross, cautiously recommend two other measures:
* If a victim is unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, may help slow venom. The bandage should not cut off blood flow from a vein or artery. A good rule of thumb is to make the band loose enough that a finger can slip under it.
* A suction device may be placed over the bite to help draw venom out of the wound without making cuts. Suction instruments often are included in commercial snakebite kits.
How NOT to Treat a Snakebite
Though US medical professionals may not agree on every aspect of what to do for snakebite first aid, they are nearly unanimous in their views of what not to do. Among their recommendations:
* No ice or any other type of cooling on the bite. Research has shown this to be potentially harmful.
* No tourniquets. This cuts blood flow completely and may result in loss of the affected limb.
* No incisions in the wound. Such measures have not been proven useful and may cause further injury.
And this from a practicing herpetologist:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...2437/bite.html
excerpt from the site:
"What should you do if you are bitten? Forget everything you've ever heard about cutting and sucking out the venom. Forget about using electric shocks from a stun gun, or packing the bitten limb in ice. Forget about tourniquets or constriction bands. None of these "treatments" work, and they all do more harm than good. The only first aid measure that can be effective is the use of a "Sawyer extractor", a device that sucks envenomed fluids out through the fang punctures themselves. The Sawyer extractor, however, is only effective if used within seconds of the bite. After that, the venoms have already traveled too far into the body's tissues to be removed.
There is a well-respected saying among venomous snake keepers----"The best equipment for treating a venomous snake bite is a set of car keys"."
Rick, what I quoted was from the FDA and the American Red Cross:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/995_snakes.html
I'm not doubting you at all. I've seen a lot of the information that is posted. As I said, I've researched this a lot. I just posted this piece from a practicing herpetologist as an example of how confusing it can be. I don't know what the right thing to do is and this could be a serious issue if someone were actually bitten. I happened to run across the web site of the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists so I emailed them the question of what they do when one of them gets bitten. We'll see if they bother to respond and what they recommend if they do.
It's good that you carry the kit. Better to use it and not need it than the other way around. It looks like the Sawyer Extractor is on the top of folks lists of the best devices and then only if used quickly.
EDIT: And just when you thought it couldn't get any foggier,
http://lomalindahealth.org/services/...es-strike.html
This guy is the leading snake bite ER doc in the nation. He's on call for Pres. Bush should he get bitten on his ranch in Texas according to this article:
http://www.ncbuy.com/news/2004-03-23/1009204.html
You'll recognize him as the doctor in "Venom ER".
Ok this is all intrestin but im goin to take a step backward here. Medicine Wolf talked about his kit that the Rangers are issued in the Park, but that sounds like alot how much is being prepared and how much until you breaking your back. Certain thngs sould be solved by a expert like a scalpel? What surgery needs to be preformed that you can do that you dont need to activley seek proffessional help? Just askin cause as with what imm gettin from Rick about snake bites is that you should seek medical help not deal with it yourself.
Well, that was the whole point of my post, Proud. The old wisdom said to cut an X on the bite and suck out the poison. Then we were told that making any sort of cut just adds a bleeding injury to a snake bite and does no good. So how good is using a negative atmosphere device? Given the fact that most snakes are non-poisonous and even poisonous snakes dry bite about 50% +/- of the time and you should seek medical attention anyway...my question is do you just remove rings and watches because of swelling and head for the nearest ER or is there some value in trying to suck out the venom. By the way - The American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists haven't responded to my email yet.
is this one sosciety? cause otherwise, i can understand why the fish people haven't responded to the snake question ;)
Thought this deserved a mention again!:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarnatl
what about snare wire do you bring the whole snare wire or cut it up before setting out ?
I always carry a roll of 24 ga. brass wire but I also have the snares I've used in the past. I also have a couple of Thompson snares I carry. I hope I understood your question.
Not entirely when you bring the roll of wire you wouldn't use the whole thing for one snare. So do you cut it into sections for more than one snare before leaving or carry more than on roll.I only ask about cutting it up because it seems like you could use it for more than one snare because they are about 100 feet in lengh.
You are correct. I don't use the whole roll only enough to build the specific type of snare I want to create. The rolls I carry are 55' so if I'm trying to catch a rabbit in a run or squirrel using a snare pole I just cut off the length of wire I need to build that specific snare. When I'm done I save the snare for reuse (you can use it for many other things as well like lashing). I like soft wire for a snare because it has a tendency to kink closed once the animal puts pressure against it.
Good that is what I was wondering because I need to know what you use to cut the wire seems like a simple knife might not cut the wire.