THIS is a photo-edited picture: :innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/...3c34432d1d.jpg
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THIS is a photo-edited picture: :innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/...3c34432d1d.jpg
Sure, there was a major clean-up after the Exxon Valdez and alot of recovery has taken place....but, back to normal in under 10 years? Where are you getting your info? Its now been over 20 years- and its still not back to the way it was before the spill. Talk to people who live around Valdez, and they tell of oil underneath the sand and rocks around many spots in Prince William Sound. The population of orca's and sea otters has not rebounded signficantly and the regions herring fishery crashed. Plus, the human cultural impact has been huge due to the constant stess associated with litigation over the spill.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierarcher
No Its not, you can see the shadow from his right hand on his jacket AND on the shirt. at least thats how I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
You think from one picture that is edited you now know who you're talking to? You think that since you've seen someone with fists, you know who I am? Your logic is very flawed. I have done all the talking, and you have done nothing but disagree. You haven't said anything yet about your opinions, just disagreed. I am now going to ask you where you stand on these issues, although it looks to me like we need a new topic, because I haven't seen BP mentioned since 2 pages ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
"98% of farms are family-owned"
That makes no difference. Yes, they are mostly family owned, that has no bearing on their size, and most of them sell to the Big Boys. Cargill is a massive food company, and they quaintly call themselves "Family Owned".
The bottom right corner sticks past the fold in the shirt, and the image does not conform to his body like it would if it was actually there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
Here it is from a different angle.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._at_Yale_3.jpg
Yes, Exactly Right, Here is a good article ,Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGMAN
Snippet,
By Yereth Rosen – Thu May 13, 4:44 pm ET
Anchorage, Alaska – Two decades after the Exxon Valdez supertanker ran aground and ripped open its cargo tanks, the spill still marks Alaska's environment. Pockets of fresh crude are buried in beaches scattered around Prince William Sound and segments outside it, in isolated spots along more than 1,200 miles of coastline that received oil in 1989.
The discovery confounded earlier predictions that remnant crude would quickly weather and disperse as waves washed it into the sea.
"At this rate, the remaining oil will take decades and possibly centuries to disappear entirely," concluded the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Trustee Council, the federal-state panel that administers the $900 million civil settlement struck in 1991 between the governments and Exxon for natural resource damages.
Continued @ http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/299887
Ha ha, Thats 100% unedited, you can even seethe shirt follow the contour of his adams apple, :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
I enjoy honest debate. It's the bull$hit and unsupported allegations of fact that I can do without. :)
And bright Red in your face letters :sneaky2:
Remember - play nice everybody.
OK, close up I can see it isn't. But this isn't the same pic, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
Ken: I have references... But most of what I say is common sense. Mega-farms can BE sustainable, but it is easier and better yet on the environment to have local food the main course. Even large sustainable farms have to have their food shipped all over.
Doesn't really matter, he's wearing it, ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
I'm surrounded by small farms with farm stands. I grow some of my own stuff. I ALWAYS buy local when available. Not too many avocados or oranges growing around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
I don't think I spend $100 a year on produce at the supermarket.
He’s a journalism professor at UC Berkley. His formal training has been in journalism and English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pollan
It seems that he is a wee bit of a radical that thinks the lifestyles of those that do not live as he sees fit are not worthy of consideration. It seems as though he would be happier if somebody or something controlled the way others behaved.
http://www.grist.org/article/pollan/
Just my thoughts on the cited reference.
You mean like the 25% of farm production that gets exported, to countries that cannot produce enough food to feed their people. Should we not ship that food, and let those millions of people starve?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
Same here. And some times of the year, things just aren't available locally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Good Lord!
Instead of arguing about whether or not he's a radical, why don't you show us some supporting evidence of the things that you are quoting.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
So can and preserve. If you're on a Wilderness Survival forum, you know the best way to survive is to mimic nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Those countries are overpopulated. There is something wrong with them, and they need to fix it. I have no idea what goes on over there, I cannot know all the worlds problems. So I stay away from this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Rick's off-line at the moment. :innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by huntermj
I have solutions for all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
Simply vote the Ken-2dumb ticket for Ruler of the World in the next election. :)
Does have a certain Ring to it ! :innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Im not voting for a ticket that has the words 2dumb in it. I might get whats advertisaed and you get what you pay for.
So where would you draw the line? Would you trade goods with a farm next to you? How about 2 miles away? Would you go completely natural, and not have a fire to stay warm? In nature, you eat only what you can find and /or kill, so is farming out of the picture?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
Survival is one thing, but in day to day life I choose to live a more comfortable life.
At least you know he's honest. How many elected leaders do you trust?Quote:
Originally Posted by huntermj
Maybe you should look at the bigger picture. Some of those countries have things that we need.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
Yeah....what he said!:innocent:LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Cargill is huge:Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Cargill is the largest privately owned firm in America. In 2008, Cargill reported profits of almost $4 billion, its sixth
straight year of record-breaking earnings, even as much of the rest of the world economy started to collapse.
Cargill packages with corbon monoxide:
Cargill has been a major advocate for technological fixes to
food safety challenges that could also be addressed through
more stringent sanitation and other preventative measures.
Only days before the November 2007 recall of hamburger
patties, a Cargill representative testified before Congress
and claimed its use of carbon monoxide in meat packaging
helped inhibit the growth of E. coli.98 There is no evidence
that carbon monoxide hinders or inhibits the bacteria that
cause foodborne illness, and the FDA did not approve it
for that use.99 The company had treated much of the beef
involved in the recalls with carbon monoxide, which is primarily
used in meat packaging to keep meat looking fresh
and red long after it may have spoiled.100
Cargill dismembers bill, prices of commodities drop:
Cargill was a major supporter of the massive deregulation
of federal agricultural policy in the 1996 farm bill, promoted
as “Freedom to Farm.”48 Cargill’s policy analyst noted
that the bill “is truly watershed legislation” that is “going to
create wonderful opportunities for many, many people in
the farm economy.”49 This farm bill was supposed to put an
end to government regulation of farming, completely phase
out government farm program payments, and encourage
farmers to plant as much as they wanted in order to take
advantage of the market.50 Proponents claimed that that
the bill would be good for U.S. farmers, allowing them to
take advantage of rising grain prices and global consumption.
51 In actuality, the new system slashed farm safety
nets and encouraged overproduction, which in turn pushed
down commodity prices.52 For example, the first year after
the 1996 farm bill went into effect, corn production jumped
by 25 percent while prices per bushel fell by 35 percent.53
In the next years, crop prices plummeted to levels well
below the cost of production.54 This free fall in commodity
prices triggered billions of dollars in “emergency” farm payments
by the federal government to head off a farm crisis.
As a significant crop purchaser, Cargill stood to benefit
from the reduced prices for the raw materials it used in
processed foods and feed.
Above: http://www.scribd.com/doc/7470879/Ca...#fullscreen:on
Small farms more profitable:
By managing fewer resources more intensively, small farmers are able to make more profit per unit of output, and thus, make more total profits — even if production of each commodity is less.12 In overall output, the diversified farm produces much more food. In the United States the smallest two-hectare farms produced $15,104 per hectare and netted about $2,902 per hectare. The largest farms, averaging 15,581 hectares, yielded $249 per hectare and netted about $52 per hectare. Not only do small- to medium-sized farms exhibit higher yields than conventional larger-scale farms, but they do this with much lower negative impacts on the environment, as research shows that small farmers take better care of natural resources, including reducing soil erosion and conserving biodiversity. However, an important part of the higher per hectare income of small farms in the United States is that they tend to by-pass middlemen and sell directly to the public, restaurants, or markets. They also tend to receive a premium for their local, and frequently organic, products.
Above: http://www.monthlyreview.org/090810altieri.php
Factory farms polluting:
Threats to Human Health
People who live near or work at factory farms breathe in hundreds of gases, which are formed as manure decomposes. The stench can be unbearable, but worse still, the gases contain many harmful chemicals. For instance, one gas released by the lagoons, hydrogen sulfide, is dangerous even at low levels. Its effects -- which are irreversible -- range from sore throat to seizures, comas and even death. Other health effects associated with the gases from factory farms include headaches, shortness of breath, wheezing, excessive coughing and diarrhea.
Animal waste also contaminates drinking water supplies. For example, nitrates often seep from lagoons and sprayfields into groundwater. Drinking water contaminated with nitrates can increase the risk of blue baby syndrome, which can cause deaths in infants. High levels of nitrates in drinking water near hog factories have also been linked to spontaneous abortions. Several disease outbreaks related to drinking water have been traced to bacteria and viruses from waste.
On top of this, the widespread use of antibiotics also poses dangers. Large-scale animal factories often give animals antibiotics to promote growth, or to compensate for illness resulting from crowded conditions. These antibiotics are entering the environment and the food chain, contributing to the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria and making it harder to treat human diseases.
Above: http://www.nrdc.org/water/pollution/nspills.asp
Never heard of them :online2long:
Permaculture is a farming practice that mimics nature... To a certain extent. The object of farming is to make a profit - do we have to sacrifice the land to do it? Do you want to kill to live comfortably? Do you want your children to live in a nuclear waste dump because you refused to not live in way that protected the Earth? When you are a Steward of Nature, your job is to protect - not to kill! That's what improper farming practices are doing - they are killing the environment! I just got an EPA newsletter where they sued a CAFO for water pollution!Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
I also choose to live comfortably - in ways that have less damage to Earth.
Of what? of What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Case
I'm sorry, but I had to laugh. Your Cargill bashing link has an advertisement for Dominos Pizza at the top of the page. Tell me which causes more harm? Funny stuff. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
I'm thinking about "economies of scale." Should everyone disconnect from the grid and run their own generator? Remember, not many can afford the start-up costs associated with wind or solar power.
First, The size of a company is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeritageFarm
Second, if they do anything that is not legal....prosecute them.
Third, if they are opperating leagally, but you still don't like how they do business....don't do business with them.
Is there anything else, that you need help with?
Here's a fairly large company. I drive by their bogs quite often.
They have 600 growers.
http://www.oceanspray.com/heritage/
That would wreck my economy!!:innocent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
This is futile.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit
Alrighty then. What's the best survival knife?:innocent: