Living in the woods/The Bare Wilderness Numptys!

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Originally Posted by owl_girl

Passionflower fruits? If your thinking of the same plant I’m thinking of I don’t thing it grows in Manitoba. Im pretty sure its not nativ to canada though you might find a cold hardy vriety growing in gardens on the west coast. unless your talking about some other Passionflower I don’t know about.

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i do not know if they have that in manitoba, i'm not sure where they are in manitoba. there are a couple dozen types of passion flowers,ppl buy them domestically and as always birds and bees and the breeze(ha i made a funny) always seem to be able to distibute the seeds, the point i was tring to give the boys was to identify 10 of the list i gave them,and give me photographic evidence, if any thing it would help them understand how diffucult this is and hpoefully give them some leads on how to get more info for their library.

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Originally Posted by owl_girl

Passionflower fruits? If your thinking of the same plant I’m thinking of I don’t thing it grows in Manitoba. Im pretty sure its not nativ to canada though you might find a cold hardy vriety growing in gardens on the west coast. unless your talking about some other Passionflower I don’t know about.

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i do not know if they have that in manitoba, i'm not sure where they are in manitoba. there are a couple dozen types of passion flowers,ppl buy them domestically and as always birds and bees and the breeze(ha i made a funny) always seem to be able to distibute the seeds, the point i was tring to give the boys was to identify 10 of the list i gave them,and give me photographic evidence, if any thing it would help them understand how diffucult this is and hpoefully give them some leads on how to get more info for their library.
and on not being native to canada you are correct they originally come from argentina but most plants in the us and kanata are not native.

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

i do not know if they have that in manitoba, i'm not sure where they are in manitoba. there are a couple dozen types of passion flowers,ppl buy them domestically and as always birds and bees and the breeze(ha i made a funny) always seem to be able to distibute the seeds, the point i was tring to give the boys was to identify 10 of the list i gave them,and give me photographic evidence, if any thing it would help them understand how diffucult this is and hpoefully give them some leads on how to get more info for their library.
and on not being native to canada you are correct they originally come from argentina but most plants in the us and kanata are not native.

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Ok I see. Sorry if I sounded like I was nitpicking at your post, its just passionflower is usually considered a subtropical plant except for one or tow varieties which often need to be mulched to survive the winter so I didn’t think it would be likely for them to find it. I wasn’t trying to nitpick though.

wanna talk about moose lol

START RANT
In my life's experience and my teachings I have never found a reason to sugar coat or try to make someone feel better about being wrong. The hobby we enjoy and lessons I teach are far to important for someones feelings to get in the way of the facts. The old saying goes that the truth hurts. If you try to down play someones completely wrong and potentially fatal concept than they will think "there's is simply another way of doing it" but if you stick that stinky idea under their nose and force them to smell it they will know without a doubt they are wrong. Why do you think that the drill instructors in boot camp are so brutal and viscous when you do wrong? It's because we remember bad experiences better than good ones, so if someone gets in your face and tells you to keep your blankity blank head down when under fire you blankity peice of blankity blank you will remember that much more clearly than if you were sat down with some cookies and milk and told a happy little story about how little johnny kept his head down while under fire and they all lived happily ever after.
END RANT

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Originally Posted by DEET

START RANT
In my life's experience and my teachings I have never found a reason to sugar coat or try to make someone feel better about being wrong. The hobby we enjoy and lessons I teach are far to important for someones feelings to get in the way of the facts. The old saying goes that the truth hurts. If you try to down play someones completely wrong and potentially fatal concept than they will think "there's is simply another way of doing it" but if you stick that stinky idea under their nose and force them to smell it they will know without a doubt they are wrong. Why do you think that the drill instructors in boot camp are so brutal and viscous when you do wrong? It's because we remember bad experiences better than good ones, so if someone gets in your face and tells you to keep your blankity blank head down when under fire you blankity peice of blankity blank you will remember that much more clearly than if you were sat down with some cookies and milk and told a happy little story about how little johnny kept his head down while under fire and they all lived happily ever after.
END RANT

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Okay, you just joined up with the list of people I'd trust out in the woods. I was glad to see that no one had their undies in a bunch over the satiric put downs that I did, yet I feared that someone in the "Wolf Pack" might really be a "pussy-cat". Now you know why they called me Sarge!:eek:

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Originally Posted by volwest

Yeah...i would stay out of this also...it smells like...rotten fish.
And i don't think they have "guts". Having guts means realizing that nature can kill you over night, having guts means to be humble, and respect life.
Suicidal by nature with a camera is just way too morbid for me...and has nothing to do with having guts.

Like Sarge and trax said...people die.
Can you say Hypothermia ?
Normal body temperature in humans is 37°C (98.6°F). Hypothermia can be divided in three stages of severity.
In stage 1, body temperature drops by 1-2°C below normal temperature (1.8-3.6°F). Mild to strong shivering occurs. The victim is unable to perform complex tasks with the hands; the hands become numb. Blood vessels in the outer extremities contract, lessening heat loss to the outside air. Breathing becomes quick and shallow. Goose bumps form, raising body hair on end in an attempt to create an insulating layer of air around the body (limited use in humans due to lack of sufficient hair, but useful in other species). Often, a person will experience a warm sensation, as if they have recovered, but they are in fact heading into Stage 2. Another test to see if the person is entering stage 2 is if they are unable to touch their thumb with their little finger; this is the first stage of muscles not working.
In stage 2, body temperature drops by 2-4°C (3.6-7.2°F). Shivering becomes more violent. Muscle mis-coordination becomes apparent. Movements are slow and labored, accompanied by a stumbling pace and mild confusion, although the victim may appear alert. Surface blood vessels contract further as the body focuses its remaining resources on keeping the vital organs warm. The victim becomes pale. Lips, ears, fingers and toes may become blue.
In stage 3, body temperature drops below approximately 32°C (90°F). Shivering usually stops. Difficulty speaking, sluggish thinking, and amnesia start to appear; inability to use hands and stumbling are also usually present. Cellular metabolic processes shut down. Below 30°C (86°F) the exposed skin becomes blue and puffy, muscle coordination very poor, walking nearly impossible, and the victim exhibits incoherent/irrational behavior including terminal burrowing or even a stupor. Pulse and respiration rates decrease significantly but fast heart rates (ventricular tachycardia, atrial fibrillation) can occur. Major organs fail. Clinical death occurs. Because of decreased cellular activity in stage 3 hypothermia, the body will actually take longer to undergo brain death.

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Yup! Been there done that, it is pretty much what it is like, in stage 3 everything seems funny, hands don't work, instead of trying another way to do something you try the same thing over and over, there is no panic, you just don't care any more.

Thanks for the list of plants I will start looking them up. We are going out in the next few weeks and i will spend time trying to find them. I will let you know how it goes

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Originally Posted by Adrian

We will be letting people know where we will be going. We are planning to post video so in order to do that we will have a computer and satelite at our main shelter. We can at any time leave or ask for help using our internet. We will not be using the computer to aid us in survival, only to send info. but if nessary we can use it to ask for help.

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This makes me feel better about it.

And Wareagle gave you some awesome advice about edibles, you should listen to him.

BTW just how many batteries will it take to keep your equipment going for 30 days? Or do you have a crank/solar charger?

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Originally Posted by spiritman

This makes me feel better about it.

And Wareagle gave you some awesome advice about edibles, you should listen to him.

BTW just how many batteries will it take to keep your equipment going for 30 days? Or do you have a crank/solar charger?

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Wareagle gave them really good advice on a lot more than just edibles, as did many others on this site which they don't want to listen to..."Stupid is as stupid does." They've proven to most of us that they don't want to learn things that they really need to. Notice how many question they side-stepped?:confused: I work for a Canadian based bus company. They use only the most professional driving lessons for all their drivers. Here's something right out of the text-book that has never, ever, been dis-proved! "300.29.1." These numbers refer to a proven odds system that if you repeat a bad habit, one that can cause really bad damage, 300 times you will actually get away with it 270 times, 29 times you will suffer only minor mishaps and only ONE time a really bad one, but once is all it takes. Hopefully there will be guys like Rick SAR out their to save their "Canadian Bacon".:mad:

I think we should've asked them more questions, and waited for the answers first, but ultimately you were looking out for them and anyone that looks up to them.

My problem with them not having a way to get help was resolved.

And thanks to RickSAR I'm going to look into his suggestions on getting found.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Wareagle gave them really good advice on a lot more than just edibles, as did many others on this site which they don't want to listen to..."Stupid is as stupid does." They've proven to most of us that they don't want to learn things that they really need to. Notice how many question they side-stepped?:confused: I work for a Canadian based bus company. They use only the most professional driving lessons for all their drivers. Here's something right out of the text-book that has never, ever, been dis-proved! "300.29.1." These numbers refer to a proven odds system that if you repeat a bad habit, one that can cause really bad damage, 300 times you will actually get away with it 270 times, 29 times you will suffer only minor mishaps and only ONE time a really bad one, but once is all it takes. Hopefully there will be guys like Rick SAR out their to save their "Canadian Bacon".:mad:

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Well I can actually see why they side stepped one of your questions, I guess I have missed a lot from the sound of it. (been busy the last few days, not much time for this) They DO have a way to get help and that was the advice that rick gave them.

And I appreciate that you guys are giving good advice, FANTASTIC advice actually, but really that's not what this is about. They are putting on a show, and have been planning on it for a while. Wouldn't you like to see what would happen if they put Les Stroud and Bear Grills in the same place at the same time and made them work together? Some co-op survival?

Anyways, they ARE bit stupid to actually do it like this, but they aren't AS stupid as your making them out to be. There's 2 of them, they know the area, and they have a means of outside communication that they will be using on what seems to me at least a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by spiritman

I think we should've asked them more questions, and waited for the answers first, but ultimately you were looking out for them and anyone that looks up to them.

My problem with them not having a way to get help was resolved.

And thanks to RickSAR I'm going to look into his suggestions on getting found.

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Don't get me wrong, Spiritman, I'm not putting anyone down for testing their mettle or following their dream...as long as they're using their brain. Asking them more questions would be a waste of time as they side-stepped the ones they didn't like, which demonstrates a lack of maturity. I've seen too much & read too much about what happens to people who never listen, who forgo training. I said I drive a bus, I'll bet a lot of you think that's really an easy job to get. Let me use this as an example of "Training".

Before I could even be hired I had to have a clean driving record for three years, A clean criminal background check, and to make sure of that my fingerprints were sent into the FBI, A clean sheet from the doctor from a physical, including zero results on a drug & alcohol test. I had to take 15 hours of classroom training & 20 hours of "behind-the-wheel" training. That got me my CDL, only after I took three written tests from the state of Illinois, and a driving test from a private group. To keep my job I have to attend a safety class once a month, attend a refresher course once a year, and re-do my driving test every eight years. I can only have one really bad accident, or two minor ones that would be considered "my fault" to lose my job and be "black-balled" from ever driving a bus again. I just received my 2nd "Safety Award Jacket" which shows that I've never had an accident that was "my fault" in 4 years. At the refresher course this year we learned that Homeland security has recently discovered that school buses are #6 on the terrorists target list so we had training on how to, hopefully, keep our butts as well as the collective ones of our passengers, safe!(remember, a bus driver cannot carry any sort of a weapon.) Anybody want an "easy" job? Apply at a McDonalds. The point here is I can't do what I need to do without going through all of this. I also have 4 different people or groups telling me what to do & I have to juggle all of that at once. The most positive thing I got out of your post was your response to Rick SAR, he has a lot to offer this group.;)

I hear ya sarge, and I don't condemn you for calling them on this.

And the questions would be so we know them and their situation better. I think it would've settled a lot of messed fur if you had know that they were gonna be able to email the missus every night, and ask her to whip out some roast duck on a silver platter for dinner.

I actually know a bus driver and I have done some commercial driving myself, so I appreciate how awesome your record is. Thats something to be proud of.

I can't say I have a lot of formal "training" in wilderness survival, but I do try and glean what I can wherever I can. With that I can recognize survival BS when i see it, because I actually try things out. You guys here are the best compilation of what I've ever read in one place, because you've screened the BS for me!

As for how much they are actually going to listen to us? Who can really say what good they are getting from us

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Originally Posted by spiritman

Well I can actually see why they side stepped one of your questions, I guess I have missed a lot from the sound of it. (been busy the last few days, not much time for this) They DO have a way to get help and that was the advice that rick gave them.

And I appreciate that you guys are giving good advice, FANTASTIC advice actually, but really that's not what this is about. They are putting on a show, and have been planning on it for a while. Wouldn't you like to see what would happen if they put Les Stroud and Bear Grills in the same place at the same time and made them work together? Some co-op survival?

Anyways, they ARE bit stupid to actually do it like this, but they aren't AS stupid as your making them out to be. There's 2 of them, they know the area, and they have a means of outside communication that they will be using on what seems to me at least a daily basis.

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Which question are you referring to, Spiritman?:mad: All my questions have a valid point!

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Originally Posted by spiritman

I hear ya sarge, and I don't condemn you for calling them on this.

And the questions would be so we know them and their situation better. I think it would've settled a lot of messed fur if you had know that they were gonna be able to email the missus every night, and ask her to whip out some roast duck on a silver platter for dinner.

I actually know a bus driver and I have done some commercial driving myself, so I appreciate how awesome your record is. Thats something to be proud of.

I can't say I have a lot of formal "training" in wilderness survival, but I do try and glean what I can wherever I can. With that I can recognize survival BS when i see it, because I actually try things out. You guys here are the best compilation of what I've ever read in one place, because you've screened the BS for me!

As for how much they are actually going to listen to us? Who can really say what good they are getting from us

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Their decision on the computer deal was a result from all the flack they got. along with advice from Rick SAR. That's why we didn't know right off. Add to that the fact that they deliberately minimized their communication to us so we never knew what's going on in their minds. It's just plain rude and immature, not to mention selfish. These guys seem to think they can walk on water based on their very limited experience. They think they are invincible! WRONG! As for Les & Bear, they are put into different places by their producers, they don't always get to place themselves into an area they're familiar with. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Their decision on the computer deal was a result from all the flack they got. along with advice from Rick SAR. That's why we didn't know right off. Add to that the fact that they deliberately minimized their communication to us so we never knew what's going on in their minds. It's just plain rude and immature, not to mention selfish. These guys seem to think they can walk on water based on their very limited experience. They think they are invincible! WRONG! As for Les & Bear, they are put into different places by their producers, they don't always get to place themselves into an area they're familiar with. :confused:

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Did they say that about the computer? I originally thought they weren't bringing one, but they never really said either way that i found. But the way they said it it seemed more like they had been planning on it the whole time.

Also they may be cocky but they aren't saying they are invincible, they even say they will abandon the idea if it gets too rough.

Also I don't know what your talking about when you say they minimized their communication, they were new here, and this forum is probably not their priority either seeing how they have their own to manage, and their own site to update as they research new things. Has anybody here tried to join their community and see the whole sight? If so is it worth joining?

Well duh they are PUT in different places, I was saying I would watch the show if they were stuck together somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Which question are you referring to, Spiritman?:mad: All my questions have a valid point!

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lol I never said your questions weren't valid, but it was already answered.You asked why they weren't taking advice from experienced ppl. RickSAR said if they DO go to have something that they could be found with, and possibly even ask for help as well as tell people exactly where they will be. They have their computer, and whatever they were planning on before they have it now. So if they can't go on anymore they can have someone who knows where they are go and grab them.

Having a computer doesnt mean they will actually be able to COMMINICATE a need,send an email or upload their video,how good is their reception on the computer gonna be? That computer they are going to lug with them may just end up being dead weight hmmm maybe they can scavenge parts off it to help them survive....shiney harddrive? might make a somewhat decent signaling device.

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Originally Posted by nell67

Having a computer doesnt mean they will actually be able to COMMINICATE a need,send an email or upload their video,how good is their reception on the computer gonna be? THat computer they are going to lug with them may just end up being dead weight hmmm maybe they can scavenge parts off it to help them survive....

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well they have time to make sure their satellite connection works at their base camp. They have already been in the area so I wonder if they already have.

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Originally Posted by spiritman

Did they say that about the computer? I originally thought they weren't bringing one, but they never really said either way that i found. But the way they said it it seemed more like they had been planning on it the whole time.

Also they may be cocky but they aren't saying they are invincible, they even say they will abandon the idea if it gets too rough.

Also I don't know what your talking about when you say they minimized their communication, they were new here, and this forum is probably not their priority either seeing how they have their own to manage, and their own site to update as they research new things. Has anybody here tried to join their community and see the whole sight? If so is it worth joining?

Well duh they are PUT in different places, I was saying I would watch the show if they were stuck together somewhere.

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Originally they implied that there was only them, their clothes, and their knives. They wrote the "new" stuff later to save face, IMO. Spiritman, here's the million dollar question, the one they didn't answer, which is the same as a refusal, and they had the time to answer other questions so this one wouldn't have been too hard: "Why do you think you know more than the experts?" I think everybody who responded, except for maybe you and Owl Girl, expressed concern & caution for their venture. They are not going into the woods for just a weekend, or even 7 days, they're going for 30 days. Go back and read what Trax, Wareagle and Rick SAR wrote about this idea. Here's another question they didn't answer: "What do you do if you're buddy slips and falls down on his knife, cutting open the femoral artery. You now have blood pumping out of the body at an alarming rate, How do you save him?" Also go to the "About Food" thread and you can see why not taking any food with you, at least to start with, is a bad idea. I have studied "Goal setting" under the famous Sales Trainer & Motivator: Zig Ziglar. The "dream" here is really just that, a goal. A goal has several stages; the 1st is to write it down on a "wild idea" sheet. Next is to look at it realistically and design it properly. Be prepared to modify it if you have to. Then you need to list in order of importance all the steps you need to take to reach it, include all the people you need to talk to, learn from, etc.

Finally, the dumbest thing that Adrian posted was what demonstrated his lack of maturity: "I don't plan to fail." Spiritman, if you don't plan to fail then you will be unprepared when you do. Every expert knows this like they know their name. In answer to your last question No I haven't joined their site and gone over it based on the nonsense that greeted me when I 1st got there. It's a whole package. p.s.: I disagree with you on the "cockiness' remark. I read their "bios". :rolleyes:

and if they cannot get it to work?

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Originally Posted by nell67

and if they cannot get it to work?

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Good point Nell, Anybody ever taken electronic gizmos out into the woods? Remember the guy I wrote about sometime back who was going to count on his GPS and Cell Phone? SPIRITMAN, never ASSUME anything, It can make an *** out of U & ME!:rolleyes:

i personally think that they should reshedule to the spring maybe do a ten day test run doccument learn then do again. they need to give themselves the winter to study wild edibles, not 45 days.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

I think everybody who responded, except for maybe you and Owl Girl, expressed concern & caution for their venture.

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I was expressing concern when I posted post # 71, maybe not as passionately as you but I was expressing concern

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Originally Posted by owl_girl

I was expressing concern when I posted post # 71, maybe not as passionately as you but I was expressing concern

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Sorry, my bad! I read so many posts regarding this I can't keep them all straight. Besides, I always view you as a gentle, wise spirit, not hard-headed like me!:rolleyes:

Do any of you wolves think I was to hard on the guys from "Bare Wilderness"?

No.
Those guys from 'BareWildernes" are two stupid ****ing numpties that want to coem here, ask for advice in someone elses thread and then cry like *****es when they don't hear what they want.

Did they want us to go "Omgzorz! You guys are as kewl as Bear GRylls1!!!!111 Aweeeeezomes!"
Focken numpties. I hope they have the most miserable 30 days of their lives just so they realise they should have listened to people with experience.

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Originally Posted by nell67

and if they cannot get it to work?

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lol then they are screwed!

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Good point Nell, Anybody ever taken electronic gizmos out into the woods? Remember the guy I wrote about sometime back who was going to count on his GPS and Cell Phone? SPIRITMAN, never ASSUME anything, It can make an *** out of U & ME!:rolleyes:

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Yeah, thats why they should test it out first, and not just wherever, exactly where they will be using it. And not just once, they should test it out every day from now until their trip.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Originally they implied that there was only them, their clothes, and their knives. They wrote the "new" stuff later to save face, IMO. Spiritman, here's the million dollar question, the one they didn't answer, which is the same as a refusal, and they had the time to answer other questions so this one wouldn't have been too hard: "Why do you think you know more than the experts?" I think everybody who responded, except for maybe you and Owl Girl, expressed concern & caution for their venture. They are not going into the woods for just a weekend, or even 7 days, they're going for 30 days. Go back and read what Trax, Wareagle and Rick SAR wrote about this idea. Here's another question they didn't answer: "What do you do if you're buddy slips and falls down on his knife, cutting open the femoral artery. You now have blood pumping out of the body at an alarming rate, How do you save him?" Also go to the "About Food" thread and you can see why not taking any food with you, at least to start with, is a bad idea. I have studied "Goal setting" under the famous Sales Trainer & Motivator: Zig Ziglar. The "dream" here is really just that, a goal. A goal has several stages; the 1st is to write it down on a "wild idea" sheet. Next is to look at it realistically and design it properly. Be prepared to modify it if you have to. Then you need to list in order of importance all the steps you need to take to reach it, include all the people you need to talk to, learn from, etc.

Finally, the dumbest thing that Adrian posted was what demonstrated his lack of maturity: "I don't plan to fail." Spiritman, if you don't plan to fail then you will be unprepared when you do. Every expert knows this like they know their name. In answer to your last question No I haven't joined their site and gone over it based on the nonsense that greeted me when I 1st got there. It's a whole package. p.s.: I disagree with you on the "cockiness' remark. I read their "bios". :rolleyes:

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It's just that I see this as a possible venture, that's all. Yeah it's dangerous, even a high possibility of death, but that's their choice. Also you can't think that if the guys wife had that big of a problem with it then that guy wouldn't be going.

I like wareagles idea to simply delay it until spring or something, and I think that would be the best idea, and with everybody who said they should go on a test run for a week a couple times. THEY WON'T DELAY it, but that's because they already set the date and would lose too much face and any sponsorship they still have with their little community which is unfortunate. They have been preparing since march, and if they are dedicated enough in their "studying" I think they can do it. Does everyone think that it would be impossible for someone to do?

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Originally Posted by spiritman

It's just that I see this as a possible venture, that's all. Yeah it's dangerous, even a high possibility of death, but that's their choice. Also you can't think that if the guys wife had that big of a problem with it then that guy wouldn't be going.

I like wareagles idea to simply delay it until spring or something, and I think that would be the best idea, and with everybody who said they should go on a test run for a week a couple times. THEY WON'T DELAY it, but that's because they already set the date and would lose too much face and any sponsorship they still have with their little community which is unfortunate. They have been preparing since march, and if they are dedicated enough in their "studying" I think they can do it. Does everyone think that it would be impossible for someone to do?

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I just realized what the problem is here, Spiritman, you're viewing this emotionally rather than logically. I don't know why the guy's wife is okay with it, that doesn't make it right. Remember: 300.29.1!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by spiritman

Yeah, thats why they should test it out first, and not just wherever, exactly where they will be using it. And not just once, they should test it out every day from now until their trip.

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It might work just fine 10 days into their trip, then go bad! What then? It's30 days, remember? Please don't let your desire to view "an adventure" cause you to turn a "blind eye" to possible danger! Please re-read all the advice on this post regarding that trip. One little thing can throw this thing into a "cocked hat"!:eek:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Sorry, my bad! I read so many posts regarding this I can't keep them all straight. Besides, I always view you as a gentle, wise spirit, not hard-headed like me!:rolleyes:

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Aww that’s alright Sarge, I wasn’t offended. Your not to hardheaded, now those guys from BareWilderness are hardheaded. I do hope they come out ok though wiser. This will probably be a humbling experience for them.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

I just realized what the problem is here, Spiritman, you're viewing this emotionally rather than logically. I don't know why the guy's wife is okay with it, that doesn't make it right. Remember: 300.29.1!:rolleyes:

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According to your logic this trip has a 90% chance of success. Good odds for any energetic enterprising person.

Also i don't see how I'm going about this emotionally, so if you could clarify that for me?

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Originally Posted by owl_girl

Aww that’s alright Sarge, I wasn’t offended. Your not to hardheaded, now those guys from BareWilderness are hardheaded. I do hope they come out ok though wiser. This will probably be a humbling experience for them.

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I definitely think your right about how they will come out of there, and with a lot of new respect for nature they never thought they could have.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

It might work just fine 10 days into their trip, then go bad! What then? It's30 days, remember? Please don't let your desire to view "an adventure" cause you to turn a "blind eye" to possible danger! Please re-read all the advice on this post regarding that trip. One little thing can throw this thing into a "cocked hat"!:eek:

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I haven't denied any danger, and I'm not going to be keeping track of their "adventure" as you put it. Everyone that has stuck their head out the door knows that random junk can throw any plans to the crapper.

You guys sure like to throw in a lot of hypothetical situations so here's one: What if everything works out great? I understand that most of you have gone through rough times and a lot of the time it was WAY out of your control, but what about easy times? Does anyone here understand Luck? Sarge you should, knowing that "accident prone" guy. Well my girl, her name is Luck, works both ways. What do you have to say about luck and also worse case scenarios Volwest, since that seems to be what this has been about.

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Originally Posted by spiritman

According to your logic this trip has a 90% chance of success. Good odds for any energetic enterprising person.

Also i don't see how I'm going about this emotionally, so if you could clarify that for me?

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You're using what's known as "compartmental thinking." You're just looking at the trip as a "great adventure". even if the trip is successful, so what? To be successful only means that they come back alive. Next what happens? Do they do it for 6 months? A year? What about people like you who might think this is cool and go out and have problems? Why do you think all the older, more experienced hands on this are against it?:confused: Did you see the movie titled "Shackleton?" In around 1917 Ernest Shackleton set off for the South Pole, He dropped off some people at a winter camp at one point and then continued on getting his ship stuck in the ice where it was later crushed as the ice closed in. Shackleton was hailed a hero for getting all of his people from the ship back safely, though some did have toes amputated. What the movie didn't mention was the 1st team he left at the 1st camp suffered tremendous loss of life. You need to see the whole picture.

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Originally Posted by spiritman

You guys sure like to throw in a lot of hypothetical situations so here's one: What if everything works out great? I understand that most of you have gone through rough times and a lot of the time it was WAY out of your control, but what about easy times? Does anyone here understand Luck? Sarge you should, knowing that "accident prone" guy. Well my girl, her name is Luck, works both ways. What do you have to say about luck and also worse case scenarios Volwest, since that seems to be what this has been about.

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Luck isn’t a very reliable lady friend, she may treat you good one day and crush you the next, would you rely on a girl like that?

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Originally Posted by spiritman

You guys sure like to throw in a lot of hypothetical situations so here's one: What if everything works out great? I understand that most of you have gone through rough times and a lot of the time it was WAY out of your control, but what about easy times? Does anyone here understand Luck? Sarge you should, knowing that "accident prone" guy. Well my girl, her name is Luck, works both ways. What do you have to say about luck and also worse case scenarios Volwest, since that seems to be what this has been about.

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People make their own luck, Spiritman.:cool: