I use to think I was the master of my destiny. Handed that off to my wife as the way I was going, destiny wasn't going to be long.
Life has way too many variables, destiny is questionable.
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I use to think I was the master of my destiny. Handed that off to my wife as the way I was going, destiny wasn't going to be long.
Life has way too many variables, destiny is questionable.
to quote a great aussie "numpty"
I mean I rely on no one else to suport me and mine. your just an antagaonist. SP? Oh course I can not control my destiny completely I have control of what is possible. The rest I let God handle. I do need a leader that is full of ****. thats all I am saying. and Snakes like you discribe are usualy full of it..Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
I think you mean "you do not."Quote:
I do need a leader that is full of ****.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
A leader does not supply any of the above. you are an antagonist. I am done with this thread.
i still think this is an absolute must read go down to donny h and then click his link. this is extremley inportant to consider i know i changed my game plan..
some body has to be in charge to make the dessions big and small hard and easy. In survival type groups usually they are elected and everyone pulls thier weight and suplies there own equipment and food usualy a group gets together and practice things to see if they are compatable anyone who goes rogue and threatens the team will have to be dealt with. These groups are not spur of the moment things but well planed out preperations.
There is a good book written like a novel by James Wesley called Patriots that is a pretty good manual Wesley has a survival blog out there that has a lot of links and info.
I think we have to rember that aman or leader is only good as his tools or the people he has to work with if the group is crappy then the leader will only not be able to do a great job. I worked for some real jerks some times in the army but if they were good leaders they got my undying support.
WB volwest!
VW actions speak louder than words , there is no answer sound very much like giving up. Bugging out ,in or up has worked all over the globe. There is strength in unity., sound judgement in planning you can't feed all of humanity people who have their prioritys straight see this and group up to protect self, group and family. Paranoia is descrided as ilrational fear , if your fears are rational then it is good fear any type of break down of society will put the masses in to the streets and country side, will it happen yes sooner or later by a time table not controled by us. Now do I go get in the stupid line with my neighbor or do I prepare in the most common scence way I know how , this is a no brainer for me in days of old a fort worked much better than sticking your head in the sand every time.
I get my knowledge on the ground and by the time I was your age I was almost ready to retire from the US ARMY and then survived in corections for 17 years when I say many rodent types try to survive with their head in a hole I have also learned that a foul mouth isn't a sin but it sure means you are crude and have limited ability to use the languge you speak. Most of the best soliders in the world are these tough mousie looking guys that will clean your clock in a heart beat Again the cursing usually reflects on your upbringing or lack there of. I can see why you are afraid of a group and that is your fear of not measuring up except in your mind.
i knew it.
welcome back bud sure missed your input. and it looks like we have found a contestant already, gosh i missed this..
Well I'll be damned. I was wondering if you were ever going to "pop" back in.
Pull up a stump, here is a cup of hot tea or coffee and a piece of jerky.
Welcome back.
The comparing of "Fight or Flight" to "Bug In / Bug Out" is a close call. Also, it falls right in line with two men discussing stressful situations.
From what I've read, men and woman react to the stress' of FF completely different and would also probably do the fall on diff. sides of the fence on the BI/BO scenario.
Wher men would be more willing to deal with the stress' by social withdraw, aggression, and substance abuse, woman typically handle the stress by seaking social support.
And you wonder why men die alot faster than woman.
Comparing this to the bug in bug out, I wonder, men would usually want to pack it in and head to the hills where woman might want to stay, find out what is happening and take action a little later.
That being said, the fight or flight scenario has all but died in our society when it comes to the tiger stalking, chasing and killing us. Yes it might come in handy if we are preyed apon by the voltures of society, if and when.
Most of us deal with the fight or flight everyday in our normal lives. The preceaved dangers are not that of the animals that want to prey on us but rather the butthead who cut us off in traffic. We get ourselves all hyped up with the adrenalins flowing through our bodies, then what. We yell, cuss, give the finger, maybe get in a fist fight, or even worse pull a gun and shoot someone, for what, cutting us off.
So, is the fight or flight slowly being bred out of us? Is this bug in bug out our last ditch effort to capture the last bastion of the pioneer spirit?
Bugging out as I have mentioned before is for those that don't have families. It would be just too easy to run away from the fight. Hide in the hills and let others deal with the ramifications of what tragic happenings accured.
Personally, you won't find me heading to the hills. I have a family, if needed the neighbors that I really don't like, we would all get together and try to create a safe haven for ours. Even if after alot of thought, if I had to back off from being a dom. male, to survive for awhile, it could be done. IT WOULD BE HARD! My survival means nothing, my families survival is paramount.
Alot of rambling.
Damnit VW.
Sarge how about the word TROLL don't know if I am supose to have a fishing or hunting liscence
And the mind is a terriable thing and must be stopped in our life time. Be a milita of one , now there is a concept. Now conflict with the group except for muli personalities and no one to blame except your self If you don't like it complan to the boss if you do like it pat yourself on the back or high 5 your self.We have met the enemy and he is us.
Hey volwest, how’s it going? It’s gotten a bit quiet around here while you were gone.
Quiet as in boring lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
This last week for me has been awesome.
I don't think VW is trying to show us that he is smarter than us, but rather he is coming to the table with psychological mindset. This mindset if looked at in the wrong light may come off as arogant even though it is not meant that way.
VW is looking at discussions in a complete different way, if you remember his hobby or maybe it was his education is psychology. His take on the fight or flight is right on and when it is carried over to other situations, can be justifieably done so.
I understand his ideology as my better half was working on a doctorate in pyshcology until she decided that it was not for her. I understand and support her reasons 100%, but damn a 4.0 gpa is hard to leave behind.
I am not grading VW as that is not my lot in life, but rather his posts bring an angle that many overlook. There is always the "do this, do that" follow instructions and you will live. But in reality, will you live if you do do it? Anyone can go through the motions and to do them without thinking, hmmmmmm.
I'm just rambling now.
I don't think VW is trying to show us that he is smarter than us, but rather he is coming to the table with psychological mindset. This mindset if looked at in the wrong light may come off as arrogant even though it is not meant that way. Or, maybe I'm wrong.
VW is looking at discussions in a complete different way, if you remember his hobby or maybe it was his education is psychology. His take on the fight or flight is right on and when it is carried over to other situations, can be justifieably done so.
I understand his ideology as my better half was working on a doctorate in pyshcology until she decided that it was not for her. I understand and support her reasons 100%, but damn a 4.0 gpa is hard to leave behind.
I am not grading VW as that is not my lot in life, but rather his posts bring an angle that many overlook. There is always the "do this, do that" follow instructions and you will live. But in reality, will you live if you do do it? Anyone can go through the motions and to do them without thinking, hmmmmmm.
I'm just rambling now.
Back to the subject of this thread, which I think is a good one.
Bug out or bug in either way should involve much prior research and planning. The group dynamic allows the infusion of additional equipment and skills and actually shares the expence of equipment and supplies. careful screening would be wise and many prior training scenarios would help weed out the fringe types and let you pick your group wisely. There is a lot of info out there some good and some bad. The botom line should be pull your weight or you will be a solo act.
GOOD JUDGEMENT COMES FROM EXPERENCE AND A LOT OF THAT COMES FROM BAD JUDGEMENT.
Bugging out, I can see how you could pick your bug out buddies. But bugging in, you really can't pick your neighbors in most cases. You can if you get a group of like minded individuals and create a society of bug ins, or would they already be considered bug outers?
In the latter case you would be in some kind of commune or a group others call "those crazy isolationists."
I think that bugging in would suggest staying in a urban enviorment which is possiable and the bad side of this puts you next to many who have not prepared which can lead to confrontation when they want your stuff. I think that the low profile approch to either in or out and never showing your actual prepardnes is the key Ragnar Benson has a book called survival retreats which discusses both rural and urbin survival, some god information some quite radical but effective. One thing to concider is that during the great depression country folks did better than most including the rich.
The preacher man says it’s the end of time
And the Mississippi River she’s a goin’ dry
The interest is up and the Stock Markets down
And you only get mugged
If you go down town
I live back in the woods, you see
A woman and the kids, and the dogs and me
I got a shotgun rifle and a 4-wheel drive
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive
I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn
We make our own whiskey and our own smoke too
Ain’t too many things these ole boys can’t do
We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive
Because you can’t starve us out
And you cant makes us run
Cause one-of- ‘em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn
We came from the West Virginia coalmines
And the Rocky Mountains and the and the western skies
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive
I had a good friend in New York City
He never called me by my name, just hillbilly
My grandpa taught me how to live off the land
And his taught him to be a businessman
He used to send me pictures of the Broadway nights
And I’d send him some homemade wine
But he was killed by a man with a switchblade knife
For 43 dollars my friend lost his life
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45
Cause a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive
Cause you can’t starve us out and you can’t make us run
Cause one-of- ‘em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn
We’re from North California and south Alabam
And little towns all around this land
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive
May I ask why you are so defensive towards VW? We all got along so great for so long until certain other newer members joined and started stuff,it all sounds like jealousy to me and it is sad really because VW does offer a different perspective to different circumstances that many would not normally consider.
I wish that we could all get along again like we did in the beginning,a moderator is supposed to keep the peace on a forum not keep it going,cant everyone just shake hands (so to speak) and start fresh and just be friends,it really pains me to see this going on on this forum.
Nell
Alright Nell, I'll knock it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by nell67
Can you update this link? I get a 'file not found' page and the computer starts talking back to me. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by wareagle69
Thank you very much.
woodwose did you scroll down to dohnny h his link still works he is about post number 4 on page one.
"I'm pickin' up good vibrationsQuote:
Originally Posted by volwest
She's givin' me excitations...good, good good, good vibrations"
---Brian Wilson, the Beach Boys:D
"I know...I'm in, I'm out. I'm in, I'm out. I can't seem to make up my own mind"Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
---Ross Perot on whether or not he was running for President a few years back.
Thanks... got it.. Hmm, I didn't know this website existed.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by donny h
The bug out bags(BOB) are packed. The little red wagon is ready for the pack to go on it. I am ready to walk out of here. Will I? Not till all other options are taken.
I have food in the pantry to last months. I have a way to purify water. I have waist control set up if needed. If the stuff hits the fan I can stay right here beating off the hoards of do not haves and want what you haves for some time.
My backs been broke a couple times so carrying 50lbs for a day would be a chore. TDW(The Dear Wife) Has arthritics and can not carry 20lbs for long. TGF(The Girl Friend) is 62 and had open heart surgery.
The wagon would be it. We are set to stay here and defend ourselves for months if need be. If we have to go, I would rather wait for the masses to thin out before we try to cross into the distance hills and take our time moving across the vast wilds of suburbia.
I will not rely on the government to come bail me out. I will not relinquish my means to protect myself or mine. I have no problem saying, I was ready and you were not so why should I have to take care of your sorry asp now?
Bugging out is what you do before the stuff hits the fan and/or only after the stuff has hit the fan and you have no other choice.
Don
I'm hunting, tracking, and scouting where ever we are. I can cook a little and have basic knowledge of medical needs. Ya don't lke that I'm with like VFR I'm gone see ya later no harm no foul. I more of a hunter protector type but would rather go it alone or most with two other people.
Sarge in the raft... its mine, splash your gone :D jk. I don't do any deep water, nothing more than a river.
By the way great read.
i am bumping this up again, i have noticed several people reading this lately so will bring it up for others, when i first came to this forum i was a bug out type of person, i know this article helped shape my new plan, that and this forum, since that time as most of you know i have purchased a large property over an hour outside of the large city (pop 150,000) if you can that large, now live outside a small community pop 500 and have set up a network with other like minded individuals and continue to prepare to bug in, so please read the beginning article it does present some great info
Thanks for the bump. As a new guy on here, I found it interesting and gave me some ideas.
I was all for a bug out scenario like WE, I have since moved away from the city...in a sense you could say I made my bug out before the SHTF. now I al fairly well prepared for a bug in... plenty of G&A, little light on the food stores but working on it, I have means for water and energy. horses for travel and we are excellent hunters. my biggest issue right now is family.
first let me say DONT take this the wrong way, I live this way by choice and would choose this choice again without question...but in that choice lies an issue:
I have moved to my farm with my wife and kids my 87 yr old grandmother (sense I do not believe in the whole nursing home scenario) who has dementia and is on lots of medicines for health issues. I also have my 60ish FIL with health issues and again lots of medicine. we chose to bring them to provide care for them as they get older and give them a "happy, worry free" latter years. that being said my bug out options if something happened local are pretty slim, my bug in options are also difficult as one cannot stockpile medicines etc to deal with certain ailments. I have pondered this question alot: "how do I care for, and provide for the elderly family members who can contribute very little if anything, and will become a greater and greater demand on resources in a bug in situation. and if a bug out situation do I choose to leave them behind and take my immediate family only?
A Short term bug in, as a Scenario A situation we would do fine, but ANY scenario B situation creates these ?'s
Any bug-in or out would be short lived. You should take care of the elderly in both situations. As an infant or toddler did they abandon you? No. So, do your best.Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckfarmboy
I got to this party real late. My position would be the town drunk (every town has one). I would hope to be ignored by the "knuckle draggers" beating their chest. I am gonna appear as harmless as possible and keep my mouth shut, using everything I ever learned to blend in and I sure don't want point on any of your forays. Skip the rear guard also. I will help but won't be at the top of my game on any task. I will keep my hide free of holes and not add anymore scars. I am good at some things and still can and will use whatever it takes. You stir the pot it floats to the top.
Very true...especially if you're talking long-term. For a few months or even one year is one thing, but to stick it over years is a whole different ball game. Based on what I've seen up here from people choosing to move out into the bush or live simply, the main reasons they quit that lifestyle seem to be:Quote:
Originally Posted by wareagle69
-their partner wasn't into it, they split up, and the person left behind didn't want to turn into an old shrivelled hermit
-unrealistic money situation. Either unable to curb their previous needs to a simpler, cheaper lifestyle and/or unable to find regular sources of cash income.
-too idealistic. The teepee and walltent dwellers that only want to use handtools. For only one or two people living the lifestyle, not using any power tools period means non-stop hard physical work in the north, which usually results in a total disenchantment of simple living. Instead of compromising and using a chainsaw, skidoo or whatever, people seem to prefer just getting back to their old lifestyle.
Question is, have they all failed? I'd argue not, because at least they gave it a shot and tried instead of clinging to all the reasons why they couldn't make the move.
Congrats, I think you said it all. I wouldn't attempt to add anything like I sometimes try to do.:):)Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel