If it wasn't for the children that haven't been taught how to hate yet - I'd agree.
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If it wasn't for the children that haven't been taught how to hate yet - I'd agree.
I'm with you Rick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Perhaps if we declared a year long moratorium on getting involved outside of our borders we wouldn't be taken for granted as much as we do.
Let the rest of the ungrateful world start pulling their weight for a change.
We're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Too many back seat drivers.
Could be just me, but if we're gonna be damned if we do or don't, then maybe we shouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
"Dozens of French citizens and dual Haitian-French nationals crowded the airport"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I would not be concerned, dozens hardly forms a crowd. And the French plane that was turned around, was turned because they could not read their flight schedule!!!! As the article says, it did get in later.
Also, food seem to be flowing slowly, so that should be lightening the burden on the victims
One article I read has the Chinese government claiming to be the first government to respond and get on site. THey seemed to ignore the fact that the Air Traffic Controler that talked them in, and then lead them to their parking spot was from the United States Air Force. Details, details :)
one thing that struck me was either day one or two don't recall which there was a feller on there yelling at the camera "where is the red cross where is the world donations" people expect everything in an instant now a days and expect everone to come rescue them, seems most people have lost the ability to help themselves, heard similar stories about katrina, woman just sitting on the curb and when asked what she was doing she replied" just waiting for the government to help me out" or something like that
sad really. i will not be one of "those' people i will be ready
I had a similar thought. Had this happened 200+ years ago. By the time we found out about it, it would have been too late to respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by wareagle69
200 hundred years ago, 1/4 the men would have formed a hunting group, 1/2 of the men would have started rebuilding houses and 1/4 of the men would have formed a security team. the women would have taken care of the children and the men and the cooking and the cleaning up and the medical issues and the orginizing and the ... that list just keeps going.
well at least 1/4 of the men got to go hunting.
The houses there are built out of old broom sticks. So its nowonder the destruction was so bad. And thats why i have a bob in the house and the car and the office.
I have maped routes to home from everywhere.
I have extra food for the people i rent from.
and have useful skills, even if i dont pay rent i have value for the community.
I dont count on forming a group to survive. But its ok if i do, i just dont count on others for my well being. Others have there own interest as first priotity as do i.
Ive had the life lessons to learn first hand to never trust my safety and well being to another, Never. I am my first responder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal334
Funny, the reporter I saw on CNN was the one saying we were sending the hatians expired MRE's. That's a born on date not an expiration date! I am getting ready to get on a plane to Haiti and don't appreciate idiots stirring up more trouble for me than I already had to deal with.
The Navy is already there producing water from their onboard desalination plants and the Air Force is on the way with a bunch of ROWPU's (really big water filters for those that don't know). Once the distribution process is figured out we will be able to keep quite a few peoples hydrated indefinitely, and that is exactly how long I will be there....indefinitely.
AKS,,, Good luck, stay safe
I agree it is going to be enough of a "cluster" without all the CNN "experts" helping you.
Be interested in hearing your experiences when you get back
Good luck, AKS. Stay safe!!!
"There's no system in place here. Literally these people here are being collected off the streets, dumped into a dump truck, then brought out here and dumped in the pits," he said."
"The fear of disease is frequently the reason for rapidly burying bodies in mass graves. But contrary to popular belief, bodies do not cause epidemics after natural disasters, experts said."
"Body collection is not the most urgent task after a natural disaster," according to the WHO's 2006 guidance on the Management of Dead Bodies after Disasters. "The priority is to care for survivors. There is no significant public health risk associated with the presence of bodies. Nevertheless, bodies should be collected as soon as possible and taken away for identification."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/14...ex.html?hpt=T2
This is an unfortunate but eventually necessary ocurrance. However the Haitian government is not even taking the time to photgraph, or collect IDs of the folks going into mass graves. They could have delayed slightly with the burials until a photo system could have been organized. Other than the very unpleasent odors, there was and is no real health concern.
Just hauling them out there in dump trucks and dumping them like garbage. That's sad. Some many friends and relatives will just simply disappear.
I wonder how many foreigners are in those graves? If you were a criminal that had survived, here's a perfect way to escape. Everyone would just assume you were killed. This is wrong on a lot of levels.
I am trying to learn from this event and apply it to my present life and frankly, I'm drawing a blank.
Maybe it's too much wine during the skiing vacation that temporarily singed the synopses but here's what's going through my head:
I travel a great deal on business--pretty much all over the world except some really dangerous places.
I don't travel with my BOB but as a matter of habit I always do some research on the lay of the land ahead of time.
Thing is, if I found myself in Haiti at this time I would have certainly been caught off guard in a big way.
I'd be staying in a hotel without the benefit of my BOB, without knowing my way around or even speaking the language.
If I survived, I'd have to navigate my way to the American embassy at best, or just keep a low profile until help showed up. Well how do you keep a low profile in in strange land when all hell breaks loose?
What would you do given the circumstances?
It would obviously depend on the event but you have to improvise. You do all the safety things for your hotel room that you should do anywhere:
1. Acquire a room on the 4th, 5th or 6th floor only away from stairwells, elevators and vending machines. One with a roof one or two stories below your window would be ideal.
2. Do a safety inspection on the room itself.
3. Count the number of doors from your room to the exit.
4. Always carry your room key even if you are exiting in an emergency.
5. Always have a flashlight handy. I've been in a hotel with a power outage and it was a life saver. I was the only one, including staff, that had one.
6. Carefully look over your room to figure out what items you can improvise with.
a. Shower curtain - Roofing, poncho, ground cover.
b. Curtains and towels - bandages and filters for water and breathing
c. Coffee pot for boiling water (carafe for carrying water)
d. Mirror for signalling
e. sheets and/or bedspread - sarape
The next time you are in a hotel room make a list of all the things you can improvise with. Then, each time you travel to a new hotel, take out your list and check to see if the things on it will match your hotel room (no coffee pot for example). If you find something new, figure out as many uses for it as you can then add them to your list.
If something bad happens you will be in a room that offers you the best means of escape and you will know what items in the room can be used to your best advantage.
I was actually imagining finding myself in Port au Prince right now, having emerged from the rubble of my hotel with just the clothes on my back. Mayhem, death and disease everywhere, and no immediate help except for those seriously hurt and dying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I don't know anyone and don't speak French.
Suppose my first move would be to find the American embassy/mission and go from there. However if that's flattened I'd have to think about step 2 and I'm drawing a blank to be honest.
Benesse, I too have done extensive overseas travel. Here are a couple things I always did (being the paranoid old fart I am). This is of course in addition to the things Rick mentioned;
I kept my passport, list of important phone #s in one of those "pouch thingies" around my neck when I slept.
Also had a map of the city I was in with important things marked (US and friendy embassies) . Is a boredoom killing distraction doing the markings.
Kept a pair of slip on sneakers with a bottle of water (or soda if water was not available) inside one sneaker next to the bed.
And had a mini BOB from a shopping bag nearby with whatever junk food or snacks were available.
Needless to say I have always been a paranoid traveler, mostly do to my line of work, but these preparations would go a long way to mitigate the initial impact of an emergency while traveling overseas
All good points, Rick & Pal.
I too have always been a nervous and fairly well prepared traveler with the exception of keeping the most important stuff within an arms reach.
It would be in the room, most likely in the safe unless I was going out. But in retrospect, keeping the passport, cred. cards and money in the safe while I slept made no sense really. I like the idea of a pouch thingie around the neck.
There is a gal that used to live about 8 miles from me that is now a missionary in Haiti. A mutual friend sent me an email she received from her. It broke down the first three days nearly hour by hour. Her parents arrived in Haiti a couple of hours before the quake. She talked about utilizing the swimming pool at the airport hotel for water. Everyone trying to either treat the injured or help rescue someone trapped in debris. She also said they began burning bodies on the second day. I don't understand that aspect of it but that's what happened.
I watched 60 minutes tonight and they were loading bodies with a front end loader and dumping them in the back of dump trucks. Pretty sick.
Good luck man. Take care of yourself. Indefinite ETS, I remember those days.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKS
The army had a nice system for packaging water from the ROWPU. It was put it in little bags that were about 1 liter. First time I ran into them was Hurricane Mitch in Guatemala. Very handy system for distribution. I think they had contractors running it. Hopefully they have something like it in Haiti. It would make life somewhat easier.
I find this very disturbing and totaly unacceptable!!!!
The only functioning field hospital in Haiti is run by the Isrealis. They had to come from across the globe and they are up, running and doing surgeries. Where are our (U.S. )military hospitals?
People are dying while the Bureaucrats putz around
The 60 minutes segment showed American doctors in a make shift hospital amputating a kids leg with a hack saw. That's all they had. They didn't even have alcohol because they had run out.
And this is DAY 6!!!!
A total failure!!! WHy are they not allowing the US military medics with a squad of riflemen to disperse out into the communities to provide at least the rudiments of care. I would guess that would be at least 100 small clinics up and running with in hours.
You might find it interesting that the U.S. troops on the ground are carrying weapons but have NOT been issued ammo. Why carry extra weight if it is of no value? Maybe that 72 hour bag should be a 144 hour bag?!
That is typical Army, empty weapons. In the US Air Force, if you carry a weapon on duty , it must be loaded, or live ammo in possession of the carrier. What is the point of not having ammo? If there is no threat, stack arms in a secure location and get them to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
That information was courtesy of the 60 minutes show last night.
THe Israelis are even setting up clinics away from their hospital setup. Number of US Field Hospitals open to date? NONE!!!!! This such an embarassment
I have a friend that is a former Marine (I know and save it).
He said that when he was issued mags for guard duty he was given three or two with all blanks and one with 3 or 5 live rounds. He got the live rounds.
If you can't trust your soldiers with live rounds blame the instruction.
There's much we can learn from the Israelis--from homeland security to getting stuff accomplished efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal334
They're even like our bff, so don't understand what's the big deal.
Wouldn't bet on that. From its modern inception Israel has shown a ruthless disregard for anyone's interest but her own.Quote:
They're even like our bff, so don't understand what's the big deal.
The US may be Israels biggest ally. But, that is not reciprocated.
Now is the stage that can and will have long term impact.
"Many victims could die from wounds that under normal circumstances would be easily treatable; a lack of food and clean water raises concerns over disease outbreaks. And people who were getting treatment for HIV and other chronic diseases no longer have access to care."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...ex.html?hpt=T2
This may be the time when you should have tried to absent yourself from a major population area, to avoid any empidemics. At this point, the average human will be sufficiently weakened that an out break of the good old fashioned flu could decimate a community.
I saw on the news tonight one Chinese relief plane tied up the runway for two hours to do photo ops. Hello?!
That is how it was with us down there. Army=empty weapons, Air Force=loaded weapons. Didn't make sense to me, but we didn't have as many problems with crowds and people stealing from us as the Army did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal334
BTW, my Avatar was taken in Haiti as I was providing armed overwatch for an Army unit that was having problems. The Haitians learned to respect the "red hats" as they called us. Between building stuff, feeding folks, and not putting up with crap, they didn't mess with us to much.
Whether that's true or not isn't germane to the point I was trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Batch
The point being, that we can learn a lot from Israel or any other country that has managed to do deal with challenges (we all share) much more successfully than we have.
Ok, I quoted and posted specifically to something regarding them being our bff.
It was probably said in jest. But, we have no BFFs in this world when it comes to war and putting lives on the line.
Excellent point. Why keep reinventing the wheel? Take a successful model from whatever the source and "tweak" it to your own needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE