Crossroads

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Originally Posted by COWBOYSURVIVAL

If the company is always working over 40 hrs. It is an inefficient process and mismanaged.....................

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That is not entirely true in most cases.
I used to think like that and argued the point as a supervisor. I didn't like OT either, really didn't like it as I was on salary, pay was the same for more hours.

I guess I made a PITA of my self enough, that a senior member of management, took me aside and went over the numbers with me. He was sort of a mentor, putting up with some of my BS, but unbenounced to me at the time, I was being groomed...LOL. Yeah I did need a hair cut as well.

Anyway, if here is any kind of benefits adding to each workers cost, per hour, take home pay is normally only 1/2 to 1/3 or actual cost per employee.
When a company schedules over time, cost per hour of those benefits has already been paid, based on 40 hours, so even time and 1/2 or even double time is only adding a little bit to the take home, benefit cost is the same.

When I moved on and started doing all the production scheduling, this really showed up.
Hr Vs cost.

If you are in the trades, and pay into a lot of your own benefits, it really is makes more sense, as you see the deductions.
We had to pay taxes on the gross emount, wereas in the factory, with hiden cost of the benefits, employees were not taxed.
Just trying to clarify something I also believed for a long time.
Ok stepping down now..........

And so the story goes....Manufacturing left this country on the above ideals. I say no overtime invest in an efficient operation. No offense to anyone's ideals, I just have mine.

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Originally Posted by COWBOYSURVIVAL

And so the story goes....Manufacturing left this country on the above ideals. I say no overtime invest in an efficient operation. No offense to anyone's ideals, I just have mine.

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No sweat, as our factory that did thing, that way, sold out, closed down and moved.....So I guess I should just shut up, LOL
Shutting up, now.........

No sweat here either Hunter...IMO the bigger waste has not been addressed, it is the corporate office of slugs that are non-value added for the most part that slugged manufacturing out of this country.

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Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp

Now, with all the little things I do, the gun shop, rustic furniture making, selling and teaching, the hiking sticks and other various home based ventures, I make way more money wise than I ever did as an engineer.

I am having fun, more time to do the things I enjoy, more money stuffed in the mattress and I do not have idiots above me telling me what to do....I am my own chief idiot now.... errrrrr wait, that did not sound right...I am my own boss now.

Personally, I have found what is important to me in life....as well as a new found love of teching....I get a real kick out of watching people I have taught to make rustic furniture...thei first piece and the look of pride and joy on their faces is honestly worth every single minute and effert.....

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Which is basically my goal. Simple, less stressful life.

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Originally Posted by MidWestMat

After being a workaholic all my life, from 14 to 42 with maybe two weeks unemployed the whole time, I do have regrets. The regret is Time for my family, or the lack thereof. I worked 60 hours a week, average 14 hours a week in travel time, and on call when I wasn't working, after the Wife and I had kids so i could make sure they had things. The things I didn't have in my youth, or my Wife's youth. Now that I am disabled and we have less things, I realize the Time that I missed, and that I now get to spend Doing things with them are both more beneficial to them as adults to be, and more beneficial to our relatonships amongst ourselves as Family. Before, I did not have the time to teach or practice 'survval' skills, or practical skills, I got to talk about it but not nearly enough hands in the mix.

My family tells me that they much prefer me home and spending time with them, because that is only for a season. Better that than to lay up treasures to attempt to insure the success of strangers that they might otherwise become. Of course, in my situaton I have the support of the Wife and my children. You should speak have a heart to heart with yours and see where they would rather you be. I bet I can guess...

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My mom was a district manager for a major chain when I was a teen. She worked my whole youth away.. just missed it almost in it's entirety. always on the road and on call.
I still don't think she's forgiven herself. I told her that she was doing what had to be done and I appreciate it, but I missed her too.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

When you have kids, their needs come first. Of course, but we don't need fancy tv's and escalades and iphonepodthings...
You want them to feel secure, worry-free and have options in life. I agree.
... However, they'll be less likely to verbalize that they also depend on you and look up to to you to make them feel less vulnerable to the ups and downs of life. This is why I'm teaching them to be self sufficient. One day I'll be gone and they won't have me to help them feel any kind of way. Building confidence and a reserve of knowledge makes everyone feel less vulnerable. My youngest likes to draw and take pictures. He might be your competition some day!

You can always quit a job that turns out not to be right for you, but you can't always find one when you need it most. It wasn't right for me when I left there last time. I'm sure not much has changed.
So what's the worst that can happen if you take this job? See MidWestMatt's post above. That's how the place was before and that's how it still is.

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Originally Posted by Camp10

I work lots and lots of hours but ...I still have time for a garden, a knifeshop, hunting trips, family camping, playing on the computer ..fun things for the family. I dont look at it as an either/or choice and I think that as long as you do, whatever you decide to do you will regret.

Agree to 40 hours a week and work more when it is good for you to do that. Companies have done a good job getting people to believe they are lucky to have a job but I am arrogant enough to believe that a company is lucky to have me. I told them that one day. the foreman said "you should feel lucky you have a job", and I looked around and there was only two of us on the floor and I was running 3 machines and pulling steel. I said, "No, you should feel lucky I showed up today". remember, there are 5 guys in that department now and all the years I worked there were only 3 of us.

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I feel like I'm pouring out my history here lol. I think I'll mull it over for a few more days. I mean, it might not really even be an option for them to hire me back.

I appreciate the feedback, It does help to see the paths others took and how they reflect on it now.

Sorry, we kinda got off track on this subject, as it's a big decision, we all wish you well.
And as have been brought up you can change your mind.

I do want to add, that after working for someone else, quiting that life and going on your own, will make it much tougher to go back, simply because now you know that you don't "Have" to be there.
At least I found that to be true....and was much harder to just dig in...

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Originally Posted by hunter63

Sorry, we kinda got off track on this subject, as it's a big decision, we all wish you well.
And as have been brought up you can change your mind.

I do want to add, that after working for someone else, quiting that life and going on your own, will make it much tougher to go back, simply because now you know that you don't "Have" to be there.
At least I found that to be true....and was much harder to just dig in...

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This is very true. I wouldn't change my situation at all. After the military making some real decent money for a change was nice - and I certainly took advantage of it (payed off bills, Mrs. Crash could quit a stressful job, etc.) Now, with my own business I don't make nearly the money I did, but am so much happier in what I'm doing and how I get to do it.

Here's a poll just for YCC

Poll: What would YOU do? (choose only one)


I'd do what makes me happy

I'd take advantage of the opportunity to get steady income and benefits

Can't tell you what to do YCC, but I will say this is a question I've been asking myself my whole life. My dad died when I was 5 trying to provide for us, working extremely long hours welding, coal mining and such. Him and his brother tried to start several businesses unsuccesfully. In the end he died and left us to fend for ourselves in a society that exploits fatherless children. I rarely got to see him when he was alive, always working. I'd much rather have him around today. The last thing he told my mom as he lay dying was "make sure them boys get an education". I'm finally doing that.

I myself, having a strong work ethic instilled by him, started working at a very young age, maybe 8 or 10 years old, I don't remember. I saved up for things and such, helped my mom when I could. Then, as I became an adult I started travelling around training customers on the repair and processes of our product. Once the customers were trained i was let go and the company I worked for sold itself to the customer. Our entire operation moved to Mexico and Brazil. I spent 5 years with them making their customer happy just to be let go as everyone else who worked there was.

I had started a college education when with that company, something i laways wanted, but could not afford and was too "well off" to get financial aid. But, I got another job making even more money. The job was in heating and cooling and required me to work 6 days every single week for the rest of my life. I made huge money doing service work, installs and sales, so I decided i didn't need to continue my dream of college as I was making more than most engineers did at the time. A year or two later I was completely burned out, had cash coming out my ears and I didn't even have to save, it just grew and grew to the point where i could buy a house and continue having no life and no free time, was even working some sundays by then. Being burned out I knew i couldn't continue so I left and took a year vaca doing whatever i felt like.

After a year my money was getting low and I went back doing water treatment, driving truck, fabrication and such. Each of these jobs progressively paid less and less and required more and more of my time. I had no social life whatsoever for a good 10 years. Simply work, sleep, eat and pay taxes while my bank account grew. It made no sense to me to have all that money and no way to enjoy it. But, without the money there isn't much way to live around here. Rent and property is, or at least was, very expensive.

But, the same thing has happened over and over. Give everything you got and then get dumped or get burned out and quit. After 3 or 4 times of this, It's now real hard for me to commit to any job. Of course, I must though, as that's how I roll, all or nothing. I got fed up with it and decided this last time to go back and get the education. Whether it pays off or just leads me into another life absorbing job is yet to be seen. I'm hoping it will eventually lead to a job that pays well enough, and has good enough benefits and time off to allow me to live.

What I'm trying to say YCC, is if the company really wants you they will compromise. If what you really want is a primitive lifestyle then what is the compromise? I gave up what i really wanted, an education, years ago for a high paying job with no time off. Now, 20 years later I'm getting back to doing what I want and what I need to be happy.

If that companyreally wants you back they will be willing to let you work 40 instead of 60, or work 5 12's instead of 6 10's, etc. etc. If they're not willing then you are just another Joe Schmoe to them. I had a simialr thing happen, but was laid off. I had found work by the time they called me back. but, a year or two later I was laid off again. I went back and told the boss I'd come back for a near 50% increase in pay, he agreed. But, he never would have agreed if he didn't get an opportunity to see what it was like not having me in the first place. Sometimes they gotta see rain before they can enjoy the sun.

If i were on the fence about it I'd question the reason why and find the answer. If the reason is you don't want to work 60, but 40 then let them know. It makes no sense getting into something that will make you miserable. Of course, you need to live, but for anything to last you must not be miserable and must have time to do the things that make you happy. If the reason is you just don't want to work a "regular" job then you have a much bigger question to answer.

I'd go with what makes me happy, because in the end that's all you, or anyone who knows you has got. My dad didn't seem too happy, and for twenty years I haven't been as happy as I'd like. I'd rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable. But, rich and happy would be ideal.

There IS a middle ground. Balance IS possible.
It's easy to pick extremes, but extremes carry risk. If you can accept and live with that, then go with it.

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Originally Posted by rwc1969

I'd rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable. But, rich and happy would be ideal.

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Neither is acceptable rwc, and most people fall somewhere in the middle. I certainly do. And as for ideals, well, I don't know of any.

All this talk about happiness and money reminds me of a anti drug commercial I saw years ago. I'm not insinuating anybody is on drugs. For some reason it's came to me. money can be a drug too in my opinion.

it went like this
a guy is walking real fast in a circle talking with his hands. he says I work more hours so I can do more coke so I can work more hours so I can do more coke so I can work more hour so I can.............so on and so on. For some reason it reminds me of consumers that get themselves into debt.

Thanks for the inputs. I still don't know the answer, but I'm fairly sure that after today I'll at least have some idea of direction.

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

Thanks for the inputs. I still don't know the answer, but I'm fairly sure that after today I'll at least have some idea of direction.

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Whatever route you go, I wish you the best of luck and I hope that everything works out for you!

I say do what makes you happy,,,, Thats what life is about,, its too short ,,, if you are happy those around you are happy,, and the other way around,,,

You know.. I might not have lots of money, but being able to spend time with the kids whenever I want to is priceless. I talked about it with the Mrs. and she said she'd rather I NOT be miserable, and that she can live without all those fancy "material" things. She loves how me and the kids spend time together and, like myself, remembered what it was like to have parents who don't ever have time for you.

I might be poor, but I'm happy. I have a lot more freedom than most folks.

There's still no formal announcement for a job opening, so it might not be an option anyway. Eventually all these patch jobs are gonna need whole roofs, so work has got to pick back up soon.

In the last year or two, I've seen construction companies that have been building houses here for 40+ years, some that my grandad did roof-work for, that are folding because their lifestyle is so expensive that they can no longer weather this downturn. Funny how most of them are driving HUGE gas-guzzling SUV's and live in fancy two-story houses with 15 bedrooms. Yeah, my house is small, but it's dang sure more affordable, more comfortable to me (us), and while it ain't fancy, it's a home instead of a house.

A few years back, I would have said take the job and be done. I have a different take now.
A good friend of mine left the military at 17 years in. 3 years before he could retire. He came into a little money, and needed the free time (and lack of deployments) to follow his dream. He invested in his larger company, and it did OK before folding. About a year after he got out, he was diagnosed with colon cancer. Went through all the treatments, and because of that his business folded. He is a cancer survivor, and could not be happier in life. Has another small endeavor he started, and is enjoying that and his kids/grand-kids. He still says it is the best thing that happened to him.
I would find it hard to give-up a good paying job, even if I disliked it. Lucky for me I got laid-off of mine, and found one I enjoy doing (even if it was not a job I ever expected to be doing).

Someone famous/successful once said...follow your dream and the money will come and I agree with that. I certainly followed my dream to do what I wanted (art) despite my mom's apprehension about being able to make a living at it. Well, art segued into graphic design which segued into product design, advertising and marketing. All related, all still interesting after all these years.
You never know where things might lead, but if you love what you are doing, and would do it even if you weren't paid, you couldn't ask for more.

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

You never know where things might lead, but if you love what you are doing, and would do it even if you weren't paid, you couldn't ask for more.

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I think that right there sums it up. If you hate what you're doing you'll be unhappy no matter how much they pay you.
How much money per hour would it take for you to work in a slaughterhouse B?

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Originally Posted by your_comforting_company

I think that right there sums it up. If you hate what you're doing you'll be unhappy no matter how much they pay you.
How much money per hour would it take for you to work in a slaughterhouse B?

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There's NO amount of $ that would induce me to do it.
I'd rather pull weeds with my teeth on the side of the road, for a crust of stale bread and a cup of water.