Burn the Bed!

[Rhoops]

Building a basic shelter, making a fire. Two separate and distinct necessities for survival. Why are they separate? A shelter is for keeping dry and warm over night, and a fire with all that energy is wasted at the coldest part of the night.
So... why not combine them? Ever heard of Roman hypocausts? Same principle. If you can make a great dinner from burying a fire and cooking meat underground, why not simply do the same for your bed? A medium size fire's coals spread in a 2-3' lozenge shape, then buried under 4+ inches soil must give a really warm spot for sleeping on!
Messed around with such things as a kid, and noticed that this method will keep ground warm to hot for up to 24 hours. Never slept on it though....
Anybody tried this succcesfully? What I'm more interested in is how to develop it further, and any other middle night warmers to add to the list: hot stones in leather, metal/plastic drinking container hot water bottles etc.

[Ken]

Many of us have used this or a similar method. I've never done it with only 4" of cover, though.

Why not tell us a bit about yourself and what you have tried? http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...r-Introduction

[Rick]

There are a few threads on fire beds. Enjoy.

[hunter63]

There are a few threads on fire beds. Enjoy.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...archid=1490318

Rick, link didn't work.?

Jeremiah Johnson...tried it.....Grizz saw right away "didn't put enough dirt down.

[TXyakr]

There are many techniques to do this and many pros and cons.
Food cooked and eaten near or in sleep shelter attracts scavengers from tiny mice to raccoons, black bear or worse. In some areas I even put my tooth brush in a "bear bag" and brush teeth far from shelter. Mice chew through your gear bags and attract snakes etc, some may carry viruses.

Other areas I have put homemade or store bought "tea candles" in a "clean pot" or hole in ground (stack dry river rock over candles/coals) under tarp to reduce humidity and make it a little warmer overnight, used "hot rocks" from edge of fire wrapped and placed in sleep bag. Coals under the ground are a little risky if there is any organic matter in the ground it can smolder and then burst into flames at the surface when you are asleep hours later, but theoretically this can work "safely". CO2 and CO are also concerns in very air tight shelters if packed around with snow, perhaps?

100s of years ago burn injuries were far more common. Children especially were burnt by heating and cooking fires very often, and homes burnt down very often.

IMO bottom line is use common sense and be cautious but there an no hard and fast "rules" or "guaranteed foolproof" methods.

[Rhoops]

Its the depth I'm wondering about. Its a balance between depth and temperature, because just like a stone from a fire- hot water bottle, it builds up to excessive pretty quick, unless you have enough soil to even it out. Then its type/ dampness... Messing with this as a kid, then later as a curious archaeologist, I was more interested in long term effects of drying out interiors of Neolithic huts. I use to live in Cornwall, where there's plenty of prehistoric hut remains but its so exposed to the Atlantic and permanently wet, heat/wet was a major problem for permanent basic settlements, and I wondered how they dealt with it. Jules Verne mentioned in the 'Voyage to Centre of the Earth' how hot it was inside an 1880 Icelander's hut, just low stone walls and a hide roof which set me thinking. If raising the bed above the ground is a basic plus, then I'd expect to find pottery containers for coals to be placed under the bed, on the same idea. Never heard of them yet though in archaeology! There's some bed sized holes in the mud floors of some of the smaller caves with prehistoric cave paintings near Bordeaux. Big enough to sleep in.. but only just if they were little. Maybe with a stretched hide sheet over it, the hole was a coal pit instead? Unlikely, but just running with the idea!
Fire beds you call them? See what I can find! Thanks for the info.

[Rhoops]

Found it... 'Fire Bed' -who would have thought!

"The Tooferate rule

Actually the Tooferate rule is just numbers, Two - Four - Eight. They stand for the following essential bits of information.

The fire burns for TWO hours.

You put FOUR inches of dirt on top of the fire at the end of the burn period.

The original hole was EIGHT inches deep." Sounds good to me.

[won't let me put the link... sorry]

[Rick]

My bad on the link. Just do a search on firebeds and some of them will come up. I've never used this method.

[randyt]

Ron Hood wrote a article about how he burned his buns by not following the tooferate rule.


There is also a heat method called the seneca fire hole. I can't remember where I heard about this but I have not been able to find any reference to it.

[hunter63]

One thing to take into conservation is simply labor to benefit reward.
Haven't tried this method of keeping warm....but have dug a LOT of fire pits approx 2' X3'....size was for cooking grate.

If this is gonna be a semi permanent structure camp, may justify digging a hole of how ever depth, as well as length, width.

In cold weather you need to contend with frozen ground, rocks, hard clay, mud, deep forest duff .....then a large enough fire need to be built to provide coals...be it on that spot or transfer coals....either way.....some digging tools are required.

Now add in wind rain, snow.....so if your shelter is over the fire.....may be a problem in the fire or shelter building stage.

The Russian Fireplace bed has been around forever....but not really suitable for camping......soon pic's and ideas

https://www.google.com/search?q=fire...+fireplace+bed

[Davy Jones]

This is a very good idea. I am asking why all the so-called survival expert like BG etc. never use techniques like that. Just to do an example, Ed Stafford had been in a desert isle for 2 mounths and he never used something (or anything?) like that. Maybe they are not so expert like they want appearing to us.... I think that people like Ray Mears or John Wiseman are better... Aren' t they?

[hunter63]

This is a very good idea. I am asking why all the so-called survival expert like BG etc. never use techniques like that. Just to do an example, Ed Stafford had been in a desert isle for 2 mounths and he never used something (or anything?) like that. Maybe they are not so expert like they want appearing to us.... I think that people like Ray Mears or John Wiseman are better... Aren' t they?

Well, BG spends his night in the hotel or RV.......or so I've heard........
You gotta remember these are TV shows.

Like I said before, lots of stuff works in some places at some times.....but you have to make up your mind if the labor is worth the effort.

If you are gonna stay in one place, are you gonna dig up you bed every night to refresh the coals?

[TXyakr]

I have not tried a "Tooferate rule" "fire-bed" so will not be to quick to judge, but I am skeptical:

The fire burns for TWO hours.

You put FOUR inches of dirt on top of the fire at the end of the burn period.

The original hole was EIGHT inches deep.

In most areas that I have camped if the soil is not rock hard like out west, it has several large tree roots. So if the coals ignite these and they smolder and eventually that fire reaches the surface your entire shelter could engulf you in flames. Also you may work up quite a sweat digging a hole the size of your body 8 inches deep and collecting enough firewood to form 4 inches of coals to cover it. BUT if all your insulation is lost or soaking wet I might try this, but a bed of organic debris, such as rotting leaves, pine needles etc would be preferable especially if I could dry some out beside a fire with a stick rack for a few hours (not many bugs and snakes if it is very cold). But like I said, I have never slept on top of coals so perhaps it could work. I generally try not to get drenched in sweat digging holes when night time temps will be going very low, moisture transfers heat much faster and thus kills.

http://www.survival.com/art1.htm

Edit: Don't ask me why I dig so much, but even when digging beside rivers or in my backyard far from where any trees are or have been for a long time there are often old tree roots and buried wood (especially along river beds or hillsides with landslides). So for buried coals to catch these and have them smolder and reach the surface is not that uncommon, but at only 8 inches deep this is less of a danger. I have also dug relatively small holes in west Texas and NM, Arizona and WOW in high desert areas with little vegetation this often requires a pickax to go as little as 4" deep. Just my experience yours may differ. Once my aunt asked me to plant a fig tree for her out there, I dug the hole planted it and thought that is a "dead tree" in no time. Might as well have planted it in a concrete driveway. LOL

[MrFixIt]

This is a very good idea. I am asking why all the so-called survival expert like BG etc. never use techniques like that. Just to do an example, Ed Stafford had been in a desert isle for 2 mounths and he never used something (or anything?) like that. Maybe they are not so expert like they want appearing to us.... I think that people like Ray Mears or John Wiseman are better... Aren' t they?

Les Stroud did something similar in 2 different episodes, 1 in South GA and 1 in Australia IIRC...

[finallyME]

Build a man a fire....keep him warm for the night.
Light a man on fire...keep him warm for the rest of his life.

[edr730]

I've used a coffee can full of coals now and then. No smoke with holes near the bottom, lots of smoke without holes. I've used hot rocks often enough since I like a warm bed to crawl into. They stay warm a long time if they are covered and next to you. They don't stay warm very long if they aren't close to you where you help keep them warm. If they are straight from the fire they'll burn a hole though whatever you wrap them in.
'

[Tokwan]

This would not be applicable to where I am as we have then to sleep on the ground. As snakes are cold blooded, the heat will attract them. As when one sleeps off the ground, then a simple nearby fire is just good enough and avoid all the laborious task of burying the coals or fire.

[lostinthewoods]

Fire bed? That sounds rather painful. I would just keep the bed and fire apart.

[hunter63]

Fire bed? That sounds rather painful. I would just keep the bed and fire apart.

Little more to it than that...re-read the whole thread....
Dig a hole, build a fire, make coals, bury coals plenty of dirt on top of coals......warm butt at night.

[jester573]

A fella would almost have to build 2 fires for it to work well. One for cooking and radiant heat, the other for the fire bed. And, a hammock camper wouldn't benefit much from the buried fire.........