How to band together?

[bulrush]

First, my question has to do with a TV "Pocky clypse" situation. I.e. almost no one has power, police are at home protecting their own, stores have been ransacked and emptied, etc.

Banding together is the best way to survive. Granted, you should band together with friends or family you know and trust. You know that ADD kid who couldn't hold a job down the street? Not a good bet to team up with.

But my question is, if you don't have family around here, and your friends are going to sit tight alone in their scattered homes, how does a lone person find a stranger to get together and survive with? (Sentence ending prepositions notwithstanding.)

I mean, an approaching stranger would have to be friendly. That means, rifle on his back, not drawn. Being polite. Offering to work for shelter and food. That kind of thing. Many people on this board would not accept strangers, assuming them to be low lifes. You would be right, for the most part, but what about the small bunch that are really hard working and trust worthy? They could really help you.

How would you test them to see if you might work together to get food and water and shelter? What might you ask them?

First, I'd ask them what their philosophy on life is. See if it's positive or negative.

EDIT. Here's more details.

While inside your house you hear an adult male shouting "Hey! Anyone home?" You go to the door and see a man standing about 30 feet from the front door. He has a rifle but it is slung on his back. A knife is visible on his belt but he is waving his hands in the air, hands not near the knife.

Person approaching you is clean shaven, age about late 30s. It is summer but he has a coat rolled on the top of a full back pack. Pack has visible one bedroll and sleeping bag, and full water bottle, pockets of pack are stuffed full. His clothes are not new, there are some rips sewn here and there. They are not real dirty but it is clear this person has been camping outside for a few days at least.

Adult has no jewelry or tattoos.

Man says: "Could I stay here the night? I can work for you, split wood, or whatever needs doing. I have my own food."

What do you do? Be serious. I know a lot of you want to make jokes and say "I waste him with my +10 crossbow."

[skunkkiller]

he has a rifle does he come bearing food or empty handed ? does he have gear like pack clothing fishing gear or none?

[bulrush]

I already mentioned what you can see, and food is not visible on him at this time.

[bulrush]

I wouldn't know how to "test" them...but i would know how to "read" them.
Tests are subjective and relative...they only serve the questioner, in a subtle game of "tell me what i want to hear" (remember high school again). The only possible outcome of this practice is the discoveries of what you think is right and what you think is wrong.

I have to disagree with this one. Remy, you might be thinking that close-ended questions are not a good test of a person's character. Remember this is an initial test, nothing in-depth. My question is an open-ended question. I would ask "What is your philosophy on life"?

If they didn't even have a philosophy, it tells me that they are likely a person that doesn't plan for the future, doesn't think ahead, and very probably gets what he wants through violence and deception.

The answer to my question will not tell me all I need to know. It just tells me if they are a serious danger to me or my family and give me an initial impression of a person. A sociopath might say "shoot em all and let God sort them out." However, the next question is, is that philosophy further moderated by responsibility to others?

People might save your life, even if the answers to some questions are opposite to yours. You could have totally different values, ethics, morals, philosophies, and yet be a formidable team.
Why ? Because those realms are not what constitute the whole of a being. Those realms are completely dependent on ideas.

Yes but you and the other men with different ideas were banded together because you were forced to work together by your CO and the threat of punishment. That doesn't apply in this situation because all society has broken down. The only things left are personal morals and responsibilities.

It is no longer about meaningless words like positive or negative...for what is positive to you might be negative to me...ideas.

That is true, different people have different ideas of positive and negative. However, there are certain absolutes which I find important in my opinion. If you want to live with me you cannot steal from me. That is an absolute. Any deviation from that will not be tolerated from me. What I'm trying to search for by questioning a stranger, is do their ideas of postive mesh with mine? Criminals will band together because they think stealing is ok. I will band together with people who think stealing is bad.

[bulrush]

What "applies", is a common direction.
Isn't surviving enough ?

Nope. It's how one survives that matters to me. Some people will murder and steal simply because there is someone to murder, and stuff to steal. That is not the direction I want to take. Criminals steal for selfish reasons, to get cash for their drug habit, or cash for more bling, or to pay off gambling debts for example. The difference between me and them is I will barter and work for food before I would steal. Sure I might steal if cornered or I have a run of bad luck, but that won't be the way I normally run my life.

I have what I earned, and I earned what I have.

We weren't forced to work together...we worked together because of forces.
The difference is in the heart, not in the CO.

Absolutes that you find important are ideas. Talking about those are signs of doubts.
Stealing is bad...why not.
What if you knew that a group of individuals were planing an attack on this soil, and you could actually steal their plan ? Would it be bad then ?

Actually, having an absolute line that you personally would not cross is a sign of strength. It's a sign that you have thought about this issue, and decided it is a line you will not cross.

Stealing would not be bad then, because my actions would be defensive, not offensive. Not that offensive is always bad either. In any case, my direction is, I don't murder someone just because they have food and I was not smart enough to prepare.

What you are looking for is "nature", direction, and temperament...not philosophies or personalities...

You could call it "nature" if you want. But the point is, I'm trying to quickly gauge what kind of person I am dealing with.

[kam]

put yourself in his place ,how would you like to be treated , my mates at bike club are people i would trust my life to , but apart from motorcycles very few of us have the same opinion on life , im lucky i can kind of tell what people are like within a few mins of general chit chat , never judge a book by its cover .tatoos mean nothing .i dont have any but i can be a real nasty !!!!!!.

[trax]

Hi kam, how about giving us a few minutes of chit-chat in the intro section, and welcome.

I also had some thoughts about the "clean shaven" and "no tattoos". Is that supposed to tell me something? I wear my hair half way down my back, often wear a beard and am tattooed.....Does that make me appear "untrustworthy"? Ted Bundy was always well dressed and clean-shaven....Why was this guy with the rifle slung on his back waving his arms?

[bulrush]

Thanks for your input, Remy, but I would like others to comment on this too.

[DOGMAN]

I have been that guy you described on numerous occasions. And people have always helped me out. i'd feel obligated to do the same.

[Geronimo!]

Bulrush,
I get the feeling, like you're looking for questions to ask a new possible work partner to see if he's trustworthy. Am I right?

I find there is one question that answers almost everything I need to know about someone.

"what is your story?"

Let them explain there life up to your initial contact. Listen to what they actually say, pay attention to where their eyes go, and watch their body language. Everything they do will tell you something. After about thirty seconds you should have a good idea what this person is like.

[trax]

The thing I find most interesting about this thread is that while people discuss the potential good and evil of others, we have two current threads wherein: a) Riverrat probably saved his neighbor's life
b) MANABA wrote about how much he enjoyed helping people out during the ice storms.

Well, Remy stated that there are 17 kinds of human nature...I hope I'm not mis-stating you Remy, but there's a couple of examples of the kind of human nature that I would have no trouble banding with and I think, one of the more common. Oh by the way, Remy, thanks for keeping it short this time

[woodlander1314]

Before I say something I have to put in that I make sure to have survival friends, we've already convened on what we will do as a team if hell breaks loose. But anyway I agree with the previous posts, i would trust him. In this kinda situation you need all the friends you can get and he is obviously in the same situation. And whatever "issues" he or she might have, they will be willing to compromise in order to survive. The strongest instinct in every human body is the instict to survive. If that isn't enough look in their eyes, not like sappy happy-go-lucky kinda look, but look in their eyes, you can see so much about them that way. Fear, sorrow, anguish, weakness of body, weakness of spirit. Just take a minute to and try to piece together what this person might have gone through in the past few days, and then ask them about it. In desperation, you will find all you need to know.

[old soldier]

personally, i can talk and listen to someone for five minutes and know whether i could hold up in a cave with them, i'm not saying that i could have picked out the green river killer, but some people just sound and look right and some don't. the first thing i would want is someone with guts and who is alert, knows what is going on around them even if they don't show it.

[grundle]

In this situation context would be very important.

I think many survivalists would get the hell out of the city, that would be the first thing I would do, because mass hysteria and mob mentality are dangerous. Most people are scared of what they don't know, so the wilderness is really the last place they would go.

If there really was a total breakdown like that, then you have a higher chance of surviving outside of the city because you have more natural resources to go on. Accessable water supply, abundant renewable food sources, and abundant energy sources for heat (i.e. wood). I think the most important factor would be the lack of competition. Cities have huge storehouses of material, but there would be enormous competition for those goods as well.

In this scenario if someone showed up at my stead, I would kindly ask him to remove any and all weapons first. I would then interview the chap outside away from my loved ones to find out about the affairs of the world and how he came around.

I figure that by the time someone makes it around to my place they are either one of two types of people. A proficient survivalist, or a rotten scum that survived the chaos by taking advantage of others. It would be easier to find out which he was by that time.

[mcfd45]

offer him to set his bag on the porch and get him a drink. the very least you can do is talk with him for a bit.

[celticsavage]

In a domestic conflict or emergency situation I would have to set some rules before he would enter. He must submit to a full search of person and belongings. You can come in looking unarmed and have a snub nose revolver in a pocket. Does he have a "official" looking radio in his pack? In any survival situation, no matter what vibe you get be cautious. Remember there are those who are specifically trained to gain the trust of others.

[Sourdough]

Hell, people can not even manage their own family. People don't even TRUST their own family. Who is the the commanding person, and if you tell the new guy, your on 11:PM to 7:AM guard duty, then your going to sleep soundly, I think not.

You let him join but he has to help in the kitchen, He Say's no I am in command now, and you can get naked and leave.

I can't think of good reasons you would want strangers on the inside. You don't want strangers with-in 5 miles on the outside.

This whole conversation is why you want to be part of a very small community, like Hope, AK. which is at the end of a 16 mile long DEAD-END road, and that road is the only way in or out.

I don't think it will get real bad........But if you do, you better be doing more than hypothesizing about it.....

Always remember someone needs to feed the bears........This property protected by "GRIZZLY BEAR" Security Co.

[Sourdough]

There are people on this forum who I would trust, and I would sleep well. I don't think there is anyone in my family I would trust 100%; either because they are not reliable, or trustworthy. And most would not even be 5% to 15% capable of completing a simple life and death chore.......

[Ole WV Coot]

Last time I trusted someone to watch my hide he got so smoked he couldn't find his own rear end. I was lucky and woke up, don't really know a person until you have been in a tight spot with them and learned the hard way. I would have to live with them under hostile conditions before I could halfway trust anyone.

[Stairman]

Im surrounded by females.Pretty ones at that.I would have to be very desperate to let some strange guy enter my home/hideout.I dont see that happening.On the other hand a female in need would be given consideration.There are some mean and nasty women out there but the male is by nature a more ruthless being.