Historical Knives

**Ole WV Coot** · 04-01-2010, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by randyt

one of boone's knife had a handle that slipped over the pointed end and then he used the knife as a flesher.

I just might suggest that everything made by folks claiming to be descendants of Mr. Boone can't be believed and if you actually think they had enough materials or money to make anything that fancy to use you're wrong. Give the museum a call, I dug lead out of Blockhouse Bottom when I was a kid and rode a bike to Jenny Wiley's grave at River and spent many years in ALL of KY and I think I know a tad about KY settlers and settlements, most of them are ancestors. Best get your blades straight or tell the museum they have a fake. The man had several knives and just ole butcher knives.

**pocomoonskyeyes** · 04-02-2010, 11:27 PM

Somebody, somewhere must be reading my mind!! This months Backwoodsman magazine has an article right along these very lines!!

Funny thing is, they say that without a doubt the knife that "Won the west" was a butcher knife!! So next time you look for a "Survival knife", don't go to the sporting goods store or section, but where you would buy your Butcher knives!! Maybe that is the reason patterns like the Cephas Ham Bowie, the Nessmuk and such as these are the "Real Survival knives"!!

**crashdive123** · 04-03-2010, 06:47 AM

Yep - never doubt what pops (aka Ole WV Coot) tells ya.

**randyt** · 04-03-2010, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

I just might suggest that everything made by folks claiming to be descendants of Mr. Boone can't be believed and if you actually think they had enough materials or money to make anything that fancy to use you're wrong. Give the museum a call, I dug lead out of Blockhouse Bottom when I was a kid and rode a bike to Jenny Wiley's grave at River and spent many years in ALL of KY and I think I know a tad about KY settlers and settlements, most of them are ancestors. Best get your blades straight or tell the museum they have a fake. The man had several knives and just ole butcher knives.

thanks for the info but i wasn't there with boone so i can only go by what i have read. i haven't been to a museum that had anything pertaining to boone. i think a handcarved wooden end would not have been that fancy or expensive to make.

**pocomoonskyeyes** · 04-03-2010, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

I just might suggest that everything made by folks claiming to be descendants of Mr. Boone can't be believed and if you actually think they had enough materials or money to make anything that fancy to use you're wrong. Give the museum a call, I dug lead out of Blockhouse Bottom when I was a kid and rode a bike to Jenny Wiley's grave at River and spent many years in ALL of KY and I think I know a tad about KY settlers and settlements, most of them are ancestors. Best get your blades straight or tell the museum they have a fake. The man had several knives and just ole butcher knives.

This is one reason I asked about knives that had "Provenance". Every year it seems, someone is coming out with some "this or that" that is supposed to have belonged to, or used by, some historical person. Only to find out later that it is some load of Malarkey.

If I make a knife and label it as a "so and so Reproduction" I don't want to get slapped in the face by being called a "Fraud". Eventually I want to be able to sell some knives. I believe that "Reputation" as a Fair and HONEST seller is VERY important. Yeah I may make some,that "Resemble Old fashioned knives", That have NO provenance. Those I would label something like the "Frontiersman", "Gambler's Dagger", "Wagon Master" or some such name. But the ones that I actually provide a person's name too, will have to have some historical fact, or provenance.

**Camp10** · 04-03-2010, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes

This is one reason I asked about knives that had "Provenance". Every year it seems, someone is coming out with some "this or that" that is supposed to have belonged to, or used by, some historical person. Only to find out later that it is some load of Malarkey.

If I make a knife and label it as a "so and so Reproduction" I don't want to get slapped in the face by being called a "Fraud". Eventually I want to be able to sell some knives. I believe that "Reputation" as a Fair and HONEST seller is VERY important. Yeah I may make some,that "Resemble Old fashioned knives", That have NO provenance. Those I would label something like the "Frontiersman", "Gambler's Dagger", "Wagon Master" or some such name. But the ones that I actually provide a person's name too, will have to have some historical fact, or provenance.

It is fairly tough to get some real provenance on many knives because knives were treated as just a tool. Probably the most famous knife in the world, Jim Bowie's knife is really unknown. There is no picture, drawing or anything (other than a few differing opinions)as to what it really looked like. It was large and resembles a butcher's knife...that's it!

IMO it is better to stick with the "frontiersman, Gambler's,wagon master" old fashioned styles because you can find these and make a very accurate modern copy. You can even pick up some found (dug up) knives from this era on places like Ebay and see how they were really made. Either way, it is much fun researching old knives.

**pocomoonskyeyes** · 04-07-2010, 11:48 AM

Well I did a ROUGH drawing of the "Cephas Ham Bowie". I mean it is rough!! I drew two different "patterns" one is for steel that is 1 1/2" wide and one for 2" steel. The length is 10" and the handle is 5". To be honest I am not happy with it. It doesn't look like the original that is on display at the Alamo. It must either be really wide steel, or it is shorter than 10". Anyway here it is:

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

And some other designs I drew up just doodling........

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

**pocomoonskyeyes** · 04-10-2010, 06:54 PM

Man Am I thrilled!! I drew up some designs for the "Cephas Ham Bowie", but it just doesn't look right!! I believe the drawings I did are for a knife that is Larger than the real one.

So........ I decided that the only way to find out is to contact the Curator at the Long Barracks Museum at the Alamo. Which is precisely what I did. I honestly expected a nice "Refusal" for the information, meanwhile thanking me for my interest. That was NOT the case! The Curator E-mailed me back and said he would be glad to provide me the dimensions of the Knife!!! WOO HOO!! I am stoked!! I can't wait!! It's like Christmas for me. As soon as I get the Dimensions I can start trying to do a proper drawing of the REAL Cephas Ham Bowie!!

On an aside note, I have been so "into" this knife, and asking questions on different Forums about it, that another Knife Maker got in touch with ME asking about this very knife!! Seems that if you do a search for "Cephas Ham Bowie" several of the answers are links to my talking about it!! He figured it must be that I have some knowledge about it, and contacted me!! I almost fell out of my chair laughing about that!! ME, a person to ask about this knife?? anyway it probably isn't as funny to you as it was to me. I just know how much I DON'T Know about it!! Anyyyyy wayyyy........... I thought I would share where my journey has led me thus far in the search for info. I am very intrigued to say the least!! Oh, and Impatient........