Range Report: HOLOSUN Micro Red Dot Sight on my Storm Carbine

**Phaedrus** · 10-21-2014, 12:57 AM

I just got back from the range; I finally got a chance to try out the HOLOSUN Micro Red Dot Sight on my 9mm Storm Carbine, and I took my HK VP9 along to put a couple hundred more rounds through her. Sighting it in was "interesting", due to my being a bonehead more than anything. Somehow I confused the adjustments- does cranking it UP move the dot or the bullet?

The PA dot sight I had on it - probably just by dumb luck- wasn't too far from zeroed right out of the box. No such luck with the HOLOSUN. It was about 10" low and 10" to the right. I actually was adjusting the wrong way at first. Also, I was too lazy to read the instructions so I had no idea how many MOA each click was. I wound up wasting a lot of ammo making one or two click adjustments. Ultimately I really cranked on it and got it close. Then it was easy to walk the bullets onto the X.

I opted to sight in at 10 yards, for two reasons. The first was pragmatic- I don't have a spotting scope so it's hard to see the bullet holes at 25 yards. The second reason is that I keep my Storm as my HD/zombie gun. The longest shot I could ever have in my house is about 30 feet. With the 115gr Federal Aluminum stuff I was running a dead on hit at 30 feet resulted in the carbine shooting about 3" high or so at 60 feet. For now I decided that's an acceptable compromise since I don't anticipate using the Storm out much passed typical handgun SD range.

The HOLOSUN performs very well! Optically it's in the same general league as the Primary Arms Classic Red Dot it replaced. I think the latter is actually optically superior with a tiny bit less tint to the window vs the HOLOSUN. Still I prefer the HOLOSUN sight since the auto ON/wake seems to work perfectly. It's also more user friendly. I find the rubber coated soft buttons on the top to be easier to adjust than the dial on the side of the PA. And since it lacks the large turret on the side like the PA has it's much cleaner and gives a better sight picture when shooting with both eyes open (my preferred way to shoot both rifles and sidearms).

Once sighted in the Storm with the HOLOSUN sight ran like a boss!

Out to 60 feet I carved the 3" target dot completely out of a target with three mags of ammo. It was child's play to dump a mag into the X-ring at handgun distance, as fast as I could pull the trigger. And of course, a "miss" with a long gun is much less pronounced than a miss with a sidearm; the former is off by a couple inches while the latter might not land on the paper. There's a lot to be said about having four points of contact vs the two with a sidearm.

I am starting to get more used to the trigger of the Storm. It's still not great but it doesn't really affect accuracy much like it would on a pistol. I'd still like to get the SP parts in the gun eventually but it will be a luxury more than a necessity. I'm not sure if it's break-in or just me getting used to it but the Storm is running very well.

Apropos of nothing the VP9 is a simply amazing shooter.

At any reasonable distance it drops bullet after bullet right into the X-ring with little effort. The bullets almost seem thought controlled. When I get my new holster from Garrett Industries the VP9 will enter my CCW rotation. If I couldn't avoid a gunfight and had to use a sidearm I'd be very relieved to have it happen on a day when I had the VP9 on me!

It's kind of funny; you could tell all the forum commandos that you keep a Glock 17 for home defense and you'd get a chorus of hoorahs, but tell them you have a 9mm Storm Carbine and you'll instantly be shouted down.

Rifle bulk with pistol power they'll tell you. Funny how a 9mm is a great choice in a pistol but seriously underpowered in a carbine.

But according to BBTI (actually crono'd) hot loadings out of the 16" Storm carbine are running right around .357 Mag velocity. Couple that with 20/30 round mags with dead-on reliability and pinpoint accuracy and I think you have a fine HD tool. Sure, an M4-gery will be more lethal but I don't feel undergunned at all with my Storm.

**kyratshooter** · 10-21-2014, 01:29 AM

If you have the windage set then being sighted in at 10yards will put you 1/2 inch high at 50 and back on zero at 75 if you are using a +P load.

I am not a fan of rifle, pistol or pistol carbine loads in my own personal HD situation. Either of them would easily penetrate my walls and head down the road for the Judge's house. His master bedroom is right in line with my "shot down the hall".

He would not appreciate that.

**crashdive123** · 10-21-2014, 06:28 AM

Thanks for the report. I have the same rifle (couldn't pass up a sale). Haven't fired it with a red dot sight yet, but soon will.

**Rick** · 10-21-2014, 07:19 AM

Great report. I need a red dot on a couple as well.

Kyrat - Are frangible rounds an option?

**kyratshooter** · 10-21-2014, 11:43 AM

Rick, most houses built today are a layer of dry wall, 4" of fiberglass insulation and an outside skin of vinyl siding. My house is no different and the judge only offers the additional resistance of a single layer of Masonite siding to the mix.

I am not sure that will stop even a "frangible" 9mm round.

At any rate, when things go bump in the night I really prefer the fragnation offered by a 12 gauge and #4 buckshot. In their 150-200 yard trip across the gap between houses they will lose enough steam to be stopped by the neighbor's wall. And a single round of my #4 buck gives the same number of projectiles down the hall as an entire magazine out of the Storm.

A lot of folks seem to never think about the flimsy nature of home construction in the present era when they start choosing HD firearms for use in a packed subdivision where the lots are only 1/2 acre and the houses are less than 25 yards separated. I once saw a chunk of metal thrown from under a lawn mower penetrate to the interior of a home and land in the baby's crib, imagine how many rooms a hot 9mm or a 5.56 will pass through.

It's just a personal thing though, and some people have several acres of land between themselves and anyone else and pistol carbine or rifle use for HD is safe in their situation, so I am not trying to cast a complete net of disapproval. Just that in my case I would not want to deal it when I have other options, especially when the most likely victim is a Criminal Court Judge.

**crashdive123** · 10-21-2014, 01:16 PM

This all assumes of course that you care for your neighbors.

**Rick** · 10-21-2014, 02:37 PM

Care for or not, this is a Criminal Court Judge in Kentucky. They're are probably more than a few guys on my "I don't care who I P.O." list but that ain't one of them. "You in a heap a trouble now, boy," sort of echos in my ears. Not that I've ever heard those words you understand. Although I did hear the question, "Have you ever had your azz drug through a vent window" once. But that's a whole 'nother story.

**kyratshooter** · 10-21-2014, 03:01 PM

The Judge is really a very nice man and his little girl often comes over on these cool nights to sit by the campfire with me in the back yard, but so far I have not had to endure the problems random shots through their house might instigate.

Don't intend too either!

One of the nice things about living in the country is you have good neighbors that live a few hundred yards away. That is far enough away to keep them good.

We shoot in our back yards when we feel inclined, but that is usually into the creek bank on our side of the road or into the 500 acre field on the opposite side of the road.

If I found little round beams of sunshine coming through my walls when the sun rose I would be looking for the responsible person just like anyone else would.

**chiggersngrits** · 10-21-2014, 07:34 PM

Phaedrus, I put a Truglow reddot on my Storm 9mm. It has the dot and an outter ring, can't remember the mil size off hand, but its is the funnerest gun I ever shot. I've shot Blazer and PMC both brass cased, 115 fmj and about 100 rounds of Wolf. I never have had a ftf or fte.
I also have looked at the SP upgrades and decided not now, maybe later.
A store near here has them for $569 so I am thinking about getting another one. I paid $1100

for the first one right after Sandy Hook but I had to have it.

**Phaedrus** · 10-22-2014, 06:42 AM

I maybe shouldn't have thrown in the comments about it being set up for HD, not really relevant to the topic. But since I did...

My house is old, still lathe and plaster. It has wood siding with vinyl over the top. I don't have neighbors close in the line of fire despite being in town. Kind of a strange layout, hard to describe. A shot fired from safe room really has nowhere to go that would hurt anything except an intruder. Lathe and plaster is a lot harder to shoot through than drywall, especially with HP bullets- they tend to break up (I've shot into lathe and plaster walls).

I'm not married to the 10 yard zero. It's kind of stupid in a way.

I did it for simplicity, probably a 20 yard zero would be a good compromise. But it does shoot absolutely dead-on at the range I'm mostly likely to use the Storm. The problem might be if I had to use it out in [what I laughingly refer to as] my yard but it's hard to envision a situation where I would do so. It's very easy with a RDS to place rounds accurately very quickly.

The HOLOSUN is step above my Primary Arms, but probably not at Aimpoint level. It will probably be a bit better when I get my new contact RX. With glasses the dot is perfect. The odds are pretty fair that if I ever need to use the gun for defense I'll be wearing glasses. Nowadays I don't sleep in my contacts since my eyes get dry more easily as I get older; I usually take out my contacts when I get home. If I'm at the computer or doing something at home I will probably be wearing my glasses.

I certainly won't say a 9mm carbine is the best gun for home defense. But right now it's the best option I have. A ways back I sold my 870 Tactical since I'd had it for a year and a half and never fired it. I just don't have anywhere I can shoot it. My LGS has an indoor range but they don't allow rifles or shotguns. However they do allow pistol caliber carbines. So I can practice with it anytime, while if I had a rifle or shotgun I wouldn't even have a place to test fire it let alone practice with it. Mostly I'm into handguns. I think a 16" carbine as with a short OAL like my Storm is a better option than a pistol. The Crono shows it getting around 300 fps more velocity than a 4" 9mm sidearm, and it's easier to shoot well. I have 2 x 30 round mags and 2 x 20 round mags and I've tested them to verify reliability. I think 30 rounds of 147gr Federal HST will get the job done. If not maybe someday you'll read about 'em finding my dead body lying on a mound of empty pistol brass!

**Rick** · 10-22-2014, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Phaedrus

The problem might be if I had to use it out in [what I laughingly refer to as] my yard but it's hard to envision a situation where I would do so.

Please reconsider that thought. The only time I've used my weapon for HD was when someone was trying to break into my truck. Outside.

**kyratshooter** · 10-22-2014, 12:39 PM

Phaedrus, do not worry about your zero inside 100 yards with a +P 9m load. If you are zeroed at 30yards you will not be over an inch high or low at any point out to 50 yards and will probably only be 4-5 inches low at 100.

The dot on your optical device, top to bottom, is larger than the bullet drop out to 75 yards.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

http://www.winchester.com/learning-c...lverlight.aspx

Do not forget to plug in the line of sight above bore for the red dot when you use the ballistics calculator or your results will be off.

A pistol carbine works just like a rifle when sighting in and if you know your ballistics you can sight in at a shorter range, where the bullet moves upward through the sight plane, and know you are zeroed where the bullet drops back through the line of sight.

**Phaedrus** · 10-23-2014, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

Please reconsider that thought. The only time I've used my weapon for HD was when someone was trying to break into my truck. Outside. [/COLOR]

I think you misread what I said. I said but it's hard to envision a situation where I would do so. In other words I can't think of any realistic scenario where I would confront someone outside my house. To my mind it's pretty hard to justify self defense outside the house if I'm inside. And if I was attacked while getting home I almost certainly wouldn't have my carbine with me.

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

Phaedrus, do not worry about your zero inside 100 yards with a +P 9m load. If you are zeroed at 30yards you will not be over an inch high or low at any point out to 50 yards and will probably only be 4-5 inches low at 100.

The dot on your optical device, top to bottom, is larger than the bullet drop out to 75 yards.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

http://www.winchester.com/learning-c...lverlight.aspx

Do not forget to plug in the line of sight above bore for the red dot when you use the ballistics calculator or your results will be off.

A pistol carbine works just like a rifle when sighting in and if you know your ballistics you can sight in at a shorter range, where the bullet moves upward through the sight plane, and know you are zeroed where the bullet drops back through the line of sight.

Great info, Kyratshooter. I suppose it might be a good idea to rezero the carbine at 25 but as you point out, it's pretty close to "point blank" at any practical distance. My carbine does shoot a little higher at 25 yards than the chart would indicate but this is almost certainly because the optic is on a riser. It needs to be to clear the sights and work with the mounts I have. If I had to shoot an attacker between the eyes at 25 I'd have to aim at his upper lip. But that's doable.

I really do need to check the zero with the ammo I keep in the gun. To zero it I used cheap 115 grain but for HD I keep it loaded with 147gr HST. I have verified that the HST works in the gun but I haven't tested POA/POI with new site. The range was closing and they were trying to get me out of there for the night. I'll try a mag of the good stuff next time. At the distances I would be engaging inside my house I can't imagine it making much difference.

The sight is really great! Probably not Aimpoint quality but it seems robust. Down the road I will get either an Aimpoint PRO or the new Meprolight RDS M5; it will go on my HK USC. Once I get the UMP conversion done it will probably supplant the Beretta in the zombie/HD role. But who knows, maybe not. Both are sweet little carbines. 30 rounds of 9mm vs 25 rounds of .45 ACP...

**Rick** · 10-23-2014, 07:42 AM

Well, we have the castle doctrine here so my yard, my home and my vehicle are all protected under it. I doubt very much if you saw someone rummaging through your vehicle that you would not head out the door but you might and that's well within your prerogative. Personal property can be replaced. People can't so we each have to weigh that. I confronted the individual, ordered him off the property at gun point, went inside and called the police who arrested him. Ended the way it should. In any case, I hope you never have to make that decision.

**Phaedrus** · 10-23-2014, 09:43 PM

Anyone desperate enough to break into my beat up '88 Silverado is welcome to the $2.50 in quarters I keep in the glove box! They probably need 'em more than I do.