Interview with Ted Kaczynski

[wareagle69]

yup i never thought you was defending him bud i was just picking on a couple of points you made and injected my own thoughts just ignore me today like i said it just hit a nerve and i let it out, carry on gentlemen

[diggler]

Take a DEEP BREATH everybody. Nobody here is implying that wilderness living will turn people into unabombers. We should atleast try to understand that a relentless unrestrained pursuit of technology has consequences and blowback. I agree with Bill Joy's statement 100%:

Kaczynski's actions were murderous and, in my view, criminally insane. He is clearly a Luddite, but simply saying this does not dismiss his argument; as difficult as it is for me to acknowledge, I saw some merit in the reasoning in this single passage. I felt compelled to confront it.

Ted Kaczynski had brilliant insight, and even though his rage was completely justifiable...he had absolutely no right to project his archetypal shadow on others.

The human being who starts by withdrawing his own shadow from his neighbour is doing work of immense, immediate political and social importance.

----Carl Jung

[crashdive123]

Take a DEEP BREATH everybody. Nobody here is implying that wilderness living will turn people into unabombers. We should atleast try to understand that a relentless unrestrained pursuit of technology has consequences and blowback.

What are you suggesting then? That technology is a corrupting influence that should be destroyed? What consequences and blowback concern you? What are you advocating?

If people want to live a simpler life without the aid of technology, the should. If people want to live a life that relys on technological advances, then they should be able to do so without fear from being targeted by some group that disagrees with them.

[Beo]

Amen Crash, I call it to each his own.
Diggler, "Ted Kaczynski had brilliant insight"

WTF, no he didn't he was a murderer, plain and simple. Call it a chemical inbalance, psycho nut job or whatever he was dillusional in thinking he should or could bomb anyone. His opinions and thoughts were not that of a rational person, no rational person bombs people like he did. It doesn't matter how he lived off the land or how good at it he was, he was a serial killer and a nut job and for anyone to think he was nobal or had any traits that were good is wrong, he was not a nobal or good person. You said "relentless unrestrained pursuit of technology has consequences and blowback" well no she-it everything has consequences, and he got his for doing unthinkable injustices. And what is "relentless unrestrained pursuit of technology" anyway.

WE, there is a big difference in war bro, my gooberment sent me to war, I didn't want to go but it was my job as a soldier and like everything else I did what I had to do, I was always professional and completed my missions, tasks, whatever to the best of my abilities. You, I am sure did the same. I did and saw some pretty nasty things while in the Army, I coped with and drive on with my life, I don't call it justifilable homicide, murder, I call it war and nasty things happen in war.

[trax]

Why does anybody bother interviewing nutbars like that anyway? I've seen interviews with Manson, Bundy, etc etc etc. I don't bother reading them.

[Dennis K.]

Why does anybody bother interviewing nutbars like that anyway? I've seen interviews with Manson, Bundy, etc etc etc. I don't bother reading them.

There, but for the grace of God, go I.

remember the "when does T****F?" thread? - the one about at which point has the line been crossed?
Same kinda thing with mental illness - TK didn't just wake up one day and decide to mail someone a bomb. It was a long, and probably tortured process, as he gradually withdrew from what would be considered reasonable and rational. Where is that mental line in the sand?
We don't know. And under the right circumstances, it could just as easily be you. or me. or some survivalist. or some silicon valley tecchie.
We interview them in hopes of catching some glimpse of the straw that broke the camel's psyche.

[trax]

I think that's why doctors interview them Dennis. The media interviews them for selling sensationalism. I once served on the Board of Directors for a mental health organization and I got to see a lot of people dealing with a lot of mental health issues, dealing with them not blowing people up.

[Dennis K.]

Sure - I don't think I would be interested in hearing from Kaczyinski on Entertainment Tonight or seeing him on the cover of a tabloid next to an Elvis sighting article.
I find mental illness fascinating, but I also would never want to lionize TK.
I feel sorry for the guy, his victims and their families, and believe he certainly needs to be permanently separated from society. But, my issue with mental illness is that it is a medical condition, and one does not treat a medical condition with incarceration.

[nell67]

How would you suggest that he be treated then? Meds and turned loose to possibly do it again?? People are notorious for not taking their meds,especially the ones who don't think anything is wrong with them.

[trax]

Dennis, I'm not trying to rag on ya here, but how do you permanently separate someone from society and not incarcerate them?

[Rick]

One thing I've learned is nothing in the universe is random. There is always a pattern even if we don't see it. I think interviews with these guys can be good if conducted by the right people. The FBI profilers, for example, base their knowledge on hours of interviews with exactly these kind of folks. Even though they are all different, certain patterns emerge than can be identified. That's a good thing to know. IMHO.

[Rick]

I always get what Dennis is saying about mental illness. I do agree with one caveat. If the person CAN be treated successfully then they should be. If they can not be or continually refuse to take medication (as is often the case) then stronger deterrents have to be employed. The same is true with non-mental illnesses. If you have a highly contagious disease and can be treated, fine. If you refuse treatment or quarantine then against your will might be appropriate. We recently saw that with the TB guy who chose to fly from Europe to the US via Canada.

[Dennis K.]

Sure - I don't think I would be interested in hearing from Kaczyinski on Entertainment Tonight or seeing him on the cover of a tabloid next to an Elvis sighting article.
I find mental illness fascinating, but I also would never want to lionize TK.
I feel sorry for the guy, his victims and their families, and believe he certainly needs to be permanently separated from society. But, my issue with mental illness is that it is a medical condition, and one does not treat a medical condition with incarceration.

The article in question appears to show TK as lucid (which he is not). It appears to be more focused on primitive living than on the psyche of TK.

I question the validity of the article. perhaps citing TK is reasonable to illustrate a point, but the author didn't seem to indicate, except in passing, that this guy was completely off the reservation.

So, I would be interested in a TK case study, by people with mental health credentials - as opposed to holding him up as some radical visionary and primitive living role model.

[Rick]

Once the first bomb went kaboom he gave up his right to be treated and free. Illness or not. IMHO.

[Dennis K.]

Agreed. But I'm not convinced that the general prison population is the right place for anyone with a mental illness.
Long term, secure facility, psychiatric care, yes. But locking someone up with a mental illness and not treating it? THAT is the definition of "cruel and unusual punishment." Kinda like the Tuskegee experiment.

[Rick]

I agree with that, too.

[Beo]

Dennis you said: "We don't know. And under the right circumstances, it could just as easily be you. or me. or some survivalist. or some silicon valley tecchie.
We interview them in hopes of catching some glimpse of the straw that broke the camel's psyche."

Under no circumstances would that be me, I am mentally stronger and morally straighter (sure I'll hear it for that one), as for people like that I think they're weak minded just like the idiots that follow people like David Koresh (or Sam Reeves for that matter, lol... jk). I personally don't care what makes the nut job tick, just lock them up (people like TK, Manson, Gaines, Bundy, and the like) until the needle slips into their arm. Then burry them on boot hill.

[Dennis K.]

B65 - I don't know you, but I do hope for your sake, that you never experience any type of mental illness, because if you do, your mental strength and moral straightness will be worthless.
The capacity for mental illness is present in every single person that is still breathing.

[Beo]

Yeah, yeah. TK can say he has a mental illness there are tons of people out there that have them and they do not become serial killers. As for me, I'll be fine. And my mental strength and moral straightness is not and never will be worthless. Those people (TK, Manson, and the others including the ones that followed Keoresh) were carny freaks and weak minded simpletons.
But this is just my opinion, take it for what its worth... one mans opinion nothing more.

[Beo]

Oh and btw, in MY OPINION, and My OPINION ONLY, anyone that sympathizes with a wack job like that is a carny freak also.