Finished the book, learned from it.

**mcfd45** · 07-01-2009, 10:27 AM

I just finished the book "Patriots" by James Wesley Rawles. It was a good read, an interesting read. Even though it is fiction it is written by the editor of survivalistblog. So I have noticed some things.

1: I am a survivalist, admitting it is the first step right? I don't want to be one of the millions that die when things go tits up, I also don't want my friends to die. I hope it never happens, but i make preps.

2: I need a battle rifle of some sort. I am thinking of going the SKS route. I can't really afford an AR15, I shot my friends SKS and liked it. I am sure I could find one under $350.

3: I need to start learning more skills. gardening, making stuff from hides, bartering ( an art that recent generations have lost), getting game without a gun, etc....

4: I need to get more ammo. In the book the prefered mode of bartering was ammo. In one section they go to a bartering fair, a corvette has a sticker on it WILL TRADE FOR 100 ROUNDS 300 WEATHERBY MAGNUM. I think I have a lot but I might need to trade some for whatever I didn't plan for.

5: I need to get with my friends and get planning. We need to take more time to learn skills and have a plan.

6: I need to get some sort of communications gear. Even if it is just the family radios from radio shack it is better than nothing.

7: I need more money to make preps. I can learn skills for free but I do need to get more stuffs.

This book was fun to read, but it made me realise I am not prepared enough. I would recommend this book to anybody. It does have a bit of an agenda but it isn't to the point were it becomes nauseating. It is bearable. I was a prepper before this and I am still a prepper. I just found a story that gave me some new ideas.
Jeff

**Rick** · 07-01-2009, 02:43 PM

Why do you need a battle rifle? Who do you intend to battle?

**Ken** · 07-01-2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by mcfd45

.......I need to get some sort of communications gear. Even if it is just the family radios from radio shack it is better than nothing.

Jeff

Jeff, see if you can score an FCC commercial repeater license (2 frequencies-- high band (150 range) or UHF (480 range). Do a bit of research first and learn which is best for your location (topography, distance, etc.) You can use the system on repeat or direct. Try to befriend the appropriate local FCC Coordinator, because he can make life very simple in this regard.

Then, take a look at e-Bay. I've found ALOT of great high quality equipment (repeaters, suitcase repeaters, base, portable, and mobile units - some REALLY high-tech stuff) selling for a small fraction of original cost, simply because the government agency or business that had the equipment upgraded or changed frequencies. Alot of the equipment is readily modifiable - often by reprogramming alone.

This stuff is often mil spec and a whole lot better and much more reliable than the "citizens band" and similar junk normally purchased by civilians. For just a few bucks more, you can put one heckuva dependable and flexible system together.

**endurance** · 07-01-2009, 09:57 PM

I'm in the credits for Jim's book. I met him in the old misc.survivalism newsgroup before the internet and webpages blossomed. I read his first draft, The Gray 90s, when it was 13 chapters and helped him refine ideas and tweak some characters. That said, I now take his perspective with a grain of salt. I've read dozens of preparedness and survivalist books since then and I've lived a life that has moved me more toward self-sufficiency over the last 20+ years. While I think Jim has some interesting insights and a different perspective, I also find a number of faults in his logic that will drain your resources while failing to get you prepared for the most likely events. If I was going to steer someone toward a reliable source of valuable long-term disaster-type prepping, it would be Jack Spirko of the Survival Podcast, not James Rawles. The reason is simple. James has you spending an inordinate amount of money on preps that you're very unlikely to need in the most likely scenarios. Those same preps are also the least valuable in the most likely scenarios.

As someone who's been prepping since I was 18-19 years old in the mid-1980s, I can tell you from my experience that spending your money on main battle rifles and up to 50,000 rounds of ammunition for it (yes, that's a real number that he quotes in one of his paid evaluations for a couple) before buying a solar freezer to store your game in is utter madness. I believe in buying things that help you live a better life, whether things get tough or even if they don't. While guns are useful tools, I'd put a much higher priority on acquiring a 10/22 than a main battle rifle. Which one can secure more game per dollar of ammunition? Which one can you afford to practice with 100 rounds a week without impacting your budget for other preps? Which one is legal to hunt the most common kinds of game, but does the minimal amount of meat damage? Which one operates nearly silently when used with CB caps or sub-sonic ammunition? Which one can you store a lifetime worth of ammunition for a few hundred bucks?

I'm not saying that everything Jim suggests is outside the realm of possibility, but the most probable disasters are the most personal, the least probable are the global-scale disasters that Rawles proposes. What's more likely, a nuclear war or unemployment? Which is more likely, an invasion of the US by foreign armies or a severe storm to strike your area?

Plan from the person level, moving up the scale of scope and down the scale of probability toward local, local regional, large regional, national, and global. Recognize that the ability for resources to be in place to respond do decrease with scale, but the national and global scale events are highly improbable compared to the personal (job loss, death of a spouse, fire, disabiling accident, etc.). If you go into debt to prepare for the improbable, you just worsened your situation when it comes to the reality you need to live in. On the other hand, if you start by storing extra food by storing what you eat and eating what you store on a rotational basis, you can take advantage of sales and have a hedge against rising food prices if times don't get tough. If times get tough and you lose your job, well at least you've drastically cut your food expenses for the next 60-90 days while you search for another job. If there's a local supermarket strike, your family is protected. If there's a pandemic flu and you and your family are quarantined in your home, you have the means to survive.

Focus on bettering your current situation and improving your survivability at the same time. Learning to grow and harvest your own food can become a great hobby that saves you money, prepares you if there's a break in our food production and distribution network, and allows you to live a healthier lifestyle by being able to control a portion of your own food supply. Learning to hunt, first with small game, then with larger game, can also be a positive change. Fishing can be an additional tool, so long as you don't rationalize the need to buy that $10k bass boat in trade for more debt that worsens your survivability for an economic downturn.

Along the same lines, investing in being more energy efficient and gaining the capacity for energy production is a place that can save you money and help you be better prepared for a worst case scenario. Solar, wind and micro hydro are all options that can help you now and later. While many old school survivalist want a 4x4 bugout vehicle, a TDI that gets 45mpg might make more sense if you have a 40 mile daily commute or you have a bugout location that's 250 miles away from home that you intend to go to (I'm generally not a bugout location oriented guy, but acquiring a piece of vacation property when other expenses have been paid off can certainly have some benefits. Also there's always events like chemical spills and forest fires that may force you to evacuate).

So in my opinion, take the momentum and entheusiasm you've gained from Rawles and direct it toward preparedness, but don't necessarily take one man's vision as gospel. If you want a book with a radically different perspective that's just as believable, if not more, pick up A World Made by Hand by Kunstler. In his post-peak oil scenario, the last place you'll want to be is in some rural setting, a hundred miles from the nearest doctor, dentist, vet, or neighbor. It makes you think about the value of a tight knit community in troubled times where mutual aid, shared skills, and the power of numbers trumps the rugged individualist trying to make a go of it out on his own.

Just something to think about. Good luck to you.

**mcfd45** · 07-01-2009, 11:37 PM

I wholeheartedly agree with you endurance. He would have you spending a lot of money on preps. I can't justify spending a quarter of the money that he predicted in his book. As for the 10/22, I have a marlin 60 that i love. you are one hundred percent correct that for the cost of a battle rifle you could put up a lifetimes supply of ammo. I thank you for your book suggestion, I am also going to read Wolf and Iron. A lot of members recommend the book. I will make an honest effort to read the book you recommended. I to do not support the bug out idea. Thanks for you help endurance.

I am new to learning about communications. I have a bit to learn about the various systems. I have some questions that I will get put down a bit later. Thanks for you advice remy.

**endurance** · 07-02-2009, 02:31 AM

Since you already have a great .22 and you are taking the time to look at sensible choices, as an alternative to a main battle rifle, consider a semi-automatic hunting rifle. Browning makes the BAR in .270 and 30-06. Between 1996 and 2004 Remmington made the 7400, which had a 10 round detachable magazine and was available in .270 and 30-06. Both are lighter than many battle rifles, but have tack-driving accuracy and more power and utility (for actual legal hunting) than a SKS/AK or an AR-15. Neither are economical guns, but their overall utility, that lack of status as military "assault weapons" when it comes to bans, and the fact that they have more takedown power than either an AR or SKS makes them worth a look when you get to that point.

Another thing to consider on the bullet stockpiling aspect is looking into a Lee Loader. Instead of needing a full bench mounted press, you just need a flat surface and a mallet, so portability is great. Furthermore, a Lee Loader is only about $25 through Cabelas, which is about 1/10th the cost of a press and dies. Reloading gives you the ability to fine tune your ammunition for accuracy to your particular gun.

**mcfd45** · 07-02-2009, 06:00 AM

once i get a rifle i will get into reloading. I just don't do it right now. I have shot both the BAR and the SKS, I like the feel of the SKS better. I haven't had the chance to try a keltec yet.

**Rick** · 07-02-2009, 06:56 AM

Endurance - That has to be one of the most level-headed, insightful posts I've seen in a long time. Your advice is right on target, in my opinion. It was well worded and well thought out. Very nice post!

**oldsoldier** · 07-02-2009, 09:32 AM

Jeff.... Rick is correct on commo. Also in addition you can get into the 2 meter HAM radios ( they have a 20 mile os so range w/o a repeater) for around $125. per radio. Move up to 10 meter with a couple hundred mile range for around $350.-450. Or even CB radios which depending on your location have a range from 2-3 miles up to world wide if "skip" is right or with some of the linear amps. CB's start around $40 at wally world and antenna's around $15.

**endurance** · 07-02-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

Endurance - That has to be one of the most level-headed, insightful posts I've seen in a long time. Your advice is right on target, in my opinion. It was well worded and well thought out. Very nice post!

Thanks Rick. It's been an evolution over years. I don't know if it's something everyone needs to go through along the way, but I certainly started with wasting good resources on long-shot scenarios when the cold war was pretty hot during the Reagan years. Now I've learned some of the best preps are simple things like turning your lawn into a garden, buying a freezer that can run on a 150w solar panel and a deep cycle battery, picking up a cheap sleeping bag for the trunk when you see one on sale, and converting to CFL light bulbs around the house so that little 2500w generator can stretch that much further if you need it. Probably the biggest risk we face as Americans is our obsession with shiney things. It's the creator of trillions of dollars in personal debt that destroys future options for individuals. It doesn't take too many new guns, TVs and X-boxes purchased on credit to prevent you from acquiring that piece of dream property that's selling for a song right now in that place you vacation every year anyway... or to keep you from leaving that job in the city that's causing your high blood pressure. Sometimes it's the choices we don't make that protects our personal liberty the most.

**Sourdough** · 07-02-2009, 04:46 PM

This is your life...everyday is your life....it is finite.....it will end. Instead of operating from worry of the future, ask what do I really want my day in day out life to look like. Some here are homesteaders/farmsteaders and are happy. Many here live semi-urban or quasi-rural and are happy. Figure out where and how you want to live, and get living......

**Rick** · 07-02-2009, 07:10 PM

Well said again, Endurance.

I bump along in my little suburban lifestyle and most nights get a gander at the stars while the dog patrols the yard for the last time before bed. It's a wonder to look up at them. Then, when I get out in the bush and night falls I just stare at the night sky. I'm blown away at the difference between the view of the sky in town and in the bush.

If you never get to the bush you have no idea what you are missing. Those of you that live in the bush may overlook one of the most beautiful sights ever. The true night sky is pretty spectacular. Life is finite, Hopeak but we live in an infinite world of wonder if we take the time to look.

**Mountain Man** · 07-03-2009, 01:38 PM

I want more info on this freezer

We've been doing research for smaller and the MOST energy efficient fridge for running on SOLAR but never a freezer, let alone one that runs on 1 battery and 1 panel.

INFO

I`m guessing it's a 12v freezer? I guess I should look into a 12v fridge too, would be awesome to get these two things actually

**Winnie** · 07-05-2009, 08:18 AM

This was a thread I initally gave a miss as the title didn't really say much(sorry)
but I've now copied Endurance's post into my documents as a reference guide.
Lesson learned..... never overlook a thread!

**endurance** · 07-05-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

I want more info on this freezer

We've been doing research for smaller and the MOST energy efficient fridge for running on SOLAR but never a freezer, let alone one that runs on 1 battery and 1 panel.

INFO

I`m guessing it's a 12v freezer? I guess I should look into a 12v fridge too, would be awesome to get these two things actually

It's a Sundanzer. If you google for them you'll find a number of different dealers with different deals. Some sell them with a 125 or 150w panel, battery charger and battery, others have free shipping (be aware, my shipping was roughly $200), others have the lowest price, but get you on the shipping. Unless you live in SLC, I doubt you'll get away with getting one without shipping.

I haven't bothered to look into the refrigerator yet. I may not. My next big goals are vacation property, a buried shipping container for secure storage, and a small cabin. Once in place, I was planning on outfitting the cabin with a gutted RV (shower, toilet, 12v lighting, propane hot water heater, propane furnace, sink, propane oven & stove for under $1500!). I figure it's a cheap source for propane and 12v appliances, albiet not the most efficient stuff. It'll set me up with all the comforts of home without having to tie into the grid.

**tacmedic** · 07-05-2009, 07:59 PM

Once in place, I was planning on outfitting the cabin with a gutted RV (shower, toilet, 12v lighting, propane hot water heater, propane furnace, sink, propane oven & stove for under $1500!). I figure it's a cheap source for propane and 12v appliances, albiet not the most efficient stuff. It'll set me up with all the comforts of home without having to tie into the grid.

That's a great idea. I never would have thought of that.