Quick Clot?

**Pilot Piotrowski** · 06-12-2009, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by crashdive123

If you are able, please clarify this with your friend. I have read from multiple sources that there is almost no chance of alergic reaction. Maybe if he has a source or something.

True. Everywhere I have read states that there is very little chance of an allergic reaction (most common source being the QuikClot FAQ here: http://www.bestglide.com/FAQ.pdf ) whereas some sources say there's 0% of an allergic reaction. But I spoke with my friend and he said that in his training he was told to always ask the victim if they are allergic to shellfish before quikclot was administered. But in a life or death situation, what would it really matter?

**Rick** · 06-12-2009, 04:02 AM

Not true. The active ingredient of QuikClot is zeolite, derived from lava rocks. It contains no animal products. Hemcon and Celox are both derived from Chitan, which are the exoskeletons of shellfish.

**crashdive123** · 06-12-2009, 06:48 AM

You see! That there is why we have a Minister of Science folks.

**Rick** · 06-12-2009, 07:12 AM

At your service. (Deep bow)

**Ken** · 06-12-2009, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

(Deep bow)

Nice. Probably just screwed up your back for an entire week.

**Rick** · 06-12-2009, 07:15 AM

At my age, just about everything is metaphorical.

**Jeepman** · 07-07-2009, 01:39 AM

The military stopped using Quick Clot. If it gets in your blood stream it cause a clot and can kill you.My son is a Combat Medic in the Army(active) and he said all of that is bad to use.:thumbdown

**typ3** · 07-07-2009, 02:31 AM

CLIFF NOTES: QuickClot makes sense for military, not for survival/BOBs/etc. QuickClot can cause serious damage and only makes sense in a very limited set of circumstances; standard first aid is a far better option. Save your money, spend it with the Red Cross.

From what I've heard, QuickClot and other rapid clotting agents are a poor substitute for proper first aid technique, especially in a longer term survival scenario.

In my first aid training, we discussed these agents and our instructor said that they can cause severe burns and serious clots. Apparently, they make sense in a military situation where sparing a solider to put pressure on an ab pad isn't an option, but in situations where standard first aid procedure (direct pressure --> pressure points --> last resort tourniquet) is doable, these agents a distant second in terms of results.

I've heard that the potential damage these agents can do in untrained hands is immense. For example, direct pressure works on wounds in limbs, the thorax and the head. There is almost never any harm in applying direct pressure, but an untrained individual in the heat of an emergency might apply QuickClot to a sucking chest wound, for example, this would make an already bad situation far far worse.

Ultimately, I have a hard time believing a panicky and undertrained person, faced with lots of blood, could or would distinguish between the few situations in which these agents make sense, and the countless situations when they'll do a great deal of harm.

Brandon

**Rick** · 07-07-2009, 06:38 AM

I have no idea where you guys get your information but you are dispensing wrong info. Several of the hemostat agents, including Quikclot, are still in use in the military and will probably always be. Unless something better comes along. I've never read of any of the agents causing that particular issue, Jeepman, but I suppose nothing is outside the realm of possibility. Of course, an arterial bleed causes death, too, so take your pick.

Typ3 - Your instructor should acquire updated information. Hemostatic agents do not cause burns. There was a time when they did but no longer.

As for pressure on an arterial bleed. Good luck with that. You must maintain constant pressure if you are lucky enough to stem the flow of blood. That is not true with a hemostatic agent. Add it to the wound and bandage. It's pretty simple.

I have no idea how you would apply direct pressure to an arterial blood flow for a wound in the thorax. In that case, you are probably talking Aorta, which means you need to be inside the chest. I doubt you will be successful with a hemostatic agent, either.

I'll give you your choice of first aid treatments in the following scenario. You are out in the woods and have an accident of any type resulting in an arterial bleed. You can apply direct pressure or apply a hemostatic agent to stop the flow of blood. It really is your choice. Because if it ever happens you will have to take action. As for me, it will be a hemostatic agent, in my case Quikclot, for me, any family member or any friends that happen to be along. I'd like to keep me and them around a while longer.

It's okay to have a differing opinion but not okay to dispense wrong medical advice. Please research your information before posting it. It could impact someone's decision on what products they carry and that could result in the loss of their life. A few casual words could literally mean life and death. That's true, by the way, for any medical advice. Not just pertaining to this.

**typ3** · 07-07-2009, 11:39 AM

Rick--I don't want to flame up, so I'll keep it brief.

Check page 29 of Z-Medica's own document about QuickClot: QucikClot Training Doc (Kinda gory)

As for misapplication of QuickClot, one study indicates even a significant portion trained Marine Corps personnel would wrongly apply QuickClot to ab and head wounds: Academic Abstract

I'm not saying QuickClot is without use, but, to quote the much maligned wikipedia:

The majority of deaths from exsanguination (blood loss) come from internal injuries, such as the laceration or perforation of the liver, spleen, or major arteries, which can only be controlled and treated by surgical techniques, therefore QuikClot is only useful in a situation where a person has serious external injuries that cannot easily be controlled by direct pressure, elevation, or a tourniquet. This situation is almost exclusive to tactical operations, where the provider must consider his own safety while treating his patient. Given that tactical operations are very seldom encountered by the everday provider, and that basic first aid and rapid transport is still the preferred method of treating external exsanguination, the situations where QuikClot would be the preferred choice of bleeding control is extremely limited.

**typ3** · 07-07-2009, 12:58 PM

remy-

Fair enough.

I just worries me that totally untrained people will substitute agents for proper first aid. Learning to locate and apply pressure to the femoral and brachial arteries doesn't take long, but I have a feeling people equipped with these agents will skip the normal first aid algorithms and go straight to QuickClot.

I think the Marine Corp study I posted bears out the fact that, in stressful first aid situations, people tend to overreact and misapply things like QuickClot.

That said, if you have a solid first aid base and you're properly trained, there is no harm in carrying hemostatic agents as a last resort measure.

**Rick** · 07-07-2009, 04:17 PM

Don't worry about a flame. We're discussing not cussing. Adults can do that.

I would never argue the point that everyone needs to receive proper first aid training. That's a must. First aid training is one of those rare situations where a little is good and a lot is better. Nor do I argue the point that abdominal and thoracic bleeds will not be helped by a a hemostatic agent. I indicated that in my earlier post.

I'll also conceded that arterial bleeds of the arm, neck or leg are fairly rare (thank goodness). I've lived my whole life and never had one. But if I do, I want something like QuikClot available.

I've also contacted Z Medica with regard to Jeepman's report of medics pulling the product. I'll post on here what they have to say.

**typ3** · 07-08-2009, 01:41 PM

While you're asking Z-Medica questions, why don't you ask them about the appalling misapplication rates cited in the above study?

**justinjedlawton** · 08-24-2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

And I'd like to see your references for ground cayenne pepper. If it really were that easy the major drug companies would be all over it.

i have used this personally on my self in my line of work these typs of things are extremely useful also a strong lemon has also been used to coagulate blood after a home birth this {lemon} i have not used b/c they are hard to come by were i live I believe that this might be "written" is this book

SOURCE-Natural Remedies Encyclopedia

Natural Remedies Encyclopedia (Hardcover)
by Vance; Archbold, Edgar E.; Cherne, Harold M. Ferrell (Autho