Barrel length and other misc. firearm questions...

**Beo** · 06-11-2008, 05:44 PM

Really my bad, looking back over a few posts I got you confused with someone else, sorry.

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-11-2008, 05:45 PM

As to the 18" shotgun barrel length, it was just plain easier to saw off part of the stock, make a shoulder strap, a belt would do. Cut the barrel down to where you could hide it under your jacket. Just swing the sucker up and fire away. I tried a single shot 12 with a barrel about a foot long taken by a cop in MD during a robbery. It had a mean bark but not much of a bite unless you're close or used anything under #4 shot and then close range only.

**Beo** · 06-11-2008, 05:45 PM

No thanks still stinks, and thats the kid in me

**Beo** · 06-11-2008, 05:46 PM

Hey, Ole WV Coot your real name ain't D.B. Cooper is it

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-11-2008, 05:59 PM

I forgot to mention about what you said about deaths during the Civil War. You got more deaths from non fatal wounds and lost limbs because of poor sanitation and battlefield doctors. The ball had an open cone at the bottom so it was dump powder, push the ball in without a seal. Rifle goes bang and the ball expands to catch the rifle gruves plus with the powder buildup balls were undersized and when everything went right the ball was so slow it was a deadly germ ridden piece of crap that made the wound turn green. Get hit in the arm or leg, it was amputated. Modern rifles have enough velocity to sterilize the slug so get shot with a modern rifle if you have a choice.

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-11-2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Beowulf65

Hey, Ole WV Coot your real name ain't D.B. Cooper is it

I think I would have had a pair of long undies, O2 little tank and would have asked for a lot more $$$. Bigfoot and his buddies are using the 200 grand that didn't blow away for welcome signs for tourists.

**Rick** · 06-11-2008, 06:37 PM

Interesting story about rifled barrels in the U.S. Interesting to me anyway. During the Civil War Colonel James Ripley was chief of Army Ordinance. He outfitted the Union troops with the short range "smoothbore" rifles that dated back to the War of 1812. Why? Because the Enfields were made by England and Col. Ripley despised the English. Not to worry. England found a buyer in the Confederate army. They were only too happy to buy them.

In the Battle of Bull Run the Confederacy devasted the Union troops AND suffered about 1/3 less casualties because their Enfields could reach out to 800 yards compared to Col. Ripley's 500 yard "smoothbores".

Even old Ripley couldn't dispute the results.

**crashdive123** · 06-11-2008, 06:53 PM

Wonder if that's where Ripley's Believe It Or Not started?

**Teotwawki** · 06-11-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Beowulf65

Really my bad, looking back over a few posts I got you confused with someone else, sorry.

No problem - I enjoy your posts and humor quite a bit.

I wish that in person I was mistaken at least once in a while for a minor.

**Teotwawki** · 06-11-2008, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

Get hit in the arm or leg, it was amputated.

Saw a med kit at the Civil War museum in Manassas this last Saturday - complete with amputation saw.

I bet the origin of the term "Saw Bone" for a doc.

**crashdive123** · 06-11-2008, 07:38 PM

Went to an historic re-enactment at Fort Clinch ( http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/photos/m...nch/clinch.htm ). Really fascinating. One of the re-enactors played the part of a surgeon. He was actually an Army doc during Vietnam. He had two actual amputation kits from the Civil War period on display. One was a field kit the other was a hospital kit. Difference? The hospital kit had a tool to taper stumps so the prosthetic would fit.

**Rick** · 06-11-2008, 07:50 PM

I had read somewhere that the best doctors were the ones that could amputate limbs the fastest because of the lack of anesthetics. 30 second times were common. In one account the doctor was so quick at amputation that he inadvertently amputated an assistant's finger in the process.

**crashdive123** · 06-11-2008, 07:56 PM

Guess it didn't pay to have slow reflexes. Another thing that he had on display was a jar full of actual bullets that had been uncovered in the area. The way he explained the difference between those and a moderen round --- get shot in the hand with a .223 round it'll probably go in one side and out the other. Get shot in the hand with one of the large (don't remember the cal) slow moving balls --- chances are that you would hav your arm amputated just below the elbow.

**Rick** · 06-11-2008, 08:01 PM

I also saw some show on TV where they were doing some archaeological dig on a lesser known battlefield. They uncovered a rifle ball that had a rectangular flat spot on one side. They pondered over that thing for a long time trying to figure out what had made the flat impression. Then it occurred to them that it had hit someone's front tooth. When they looked closely they could see tiny striations of the front tooth embedded in the led. It obvious didn't stop at the tooth but I just groaned when they announced what had caused it.

**Pict** · 06-11-2008, 08:52 PM

As had been pointed out rifling was around long before the Civil war. What made the civil war differnet from the Revolutionary war weapons was the rifled MUSKET. Loading a Revolutionary war era rifle was difficult because the patched round ball had to be hammered down the rifling and fit very tight. The standard weapon at that time was the smoothbore musket that was much quicker to load but far less accurate.

Around the time of the Civil war rifling was added to the musket and a special hollow based conical bullet was loaded. Upon firing the gasses expanded the base of the bullet to engage in the rifling. The guns were fast to load but accurate much further. A company of men with rifled muskets could engage much farther out than ever before in war. It was also at this time that the first breech loading rifles and repeaters were introduced to warfare making it much easier to kill lots of people.

Shotguns tend to spread about 1 inch per yard as a standard rule of thumb. Thus at 15 yards you should expect a spread of about 15 inches, the width of a typical male chest. At 25 yards that spread is about 25 inches or the height of a mans torso more or less.

Pattern of a shotgun refers to the density of the holes it will put in a paper large enough to contain all of the pellets at a given distance. If you take that 25 yard shot above and hit a big piece of brown paper you get a pattern of holes. A good quality shotgun with good quality ammunition will give a very uniform pattern. If it is patchy, with large holes in some areas and pulverized paper in others you are getting a poor pattern. This varies widely between brands of ammo and shotgun, choke etc. So you must pattern your shotgun with the loads you plan to use be it for defense or hunting so you know what your shotgun does.

Spread really depends more on the choke and the quality of ammunition than barrel length alone. People saw off shotguns to make a more handy or concealable weapon, but aside from that they really don't give any advantages and some serious drawbacks. The downside, aside from legal problems, is that they are very loud, hard to control, and difficult to aim effectively. Mac

**Teotwawki** · 06-11-2008, 09:15 PM

I don't have any interest in modifying firearms - just curious.

I have deep respect for the lethality of guns and have no interest in making them less safe.

Visited Gettysburg last year - during that battle tons of artillery and an estimated 7 million bullets were fired. We took a guided tour that was fascinating. Our guide said that artifacts are still found - especially after a hard rain. Not too many years ago a skeleton was found in a roadside culvert after a rain.

My son purchased a couple of shell fragments and spent / mangled bullets from a local antiques / artifacts store.

Interesting Gettysburg National Geographic article here...

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-11-2008, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Teotwawki

I don't have any interest in modifying firearms - just curious.

I have deep respect for the lethality of guns and have no interest in making them less safe.

Visited Gettysburg last year - during that battle tons of artillery and an estimated 7 million bullets were fired. We took a guided tour that was fascinating. Our guide said that artifacts are still found - especially after a hard rain. Not too many years ago a skeleton was found in a roadside culvert after a rain.

My son purchased a couple of shell fragments and spent / mangled bullets from a local antiques / artifacts store.

Interesting Gettysburg National Geographic article here...

I lived between Manassas & Woodbridge for years and one thing I learned was don't bend over to pick up anything on any battlefield. The park rangers frown on picking up anything. If you get caught with a metal detector I think it's l00yrs at Lorton or Life, whichever comes first. I did manage to get a decent collection of "stuff" at both places but found much more in Fredericksburg. Had a friend that had 4 acres next to the battlefield by the horse trenches and did very well there. Best we did was one sword, many balls and some "thingys" we couldn't identify. A big penny or two etc.

**Teotwawki** · 06-12-2008, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

I lived between Manassas & Woodbridge for years and one thing I learned was don't bend over to pick up anything on any battlefield. The park rangers frown on picking up anything. If you get caught with a metal detector I think it's l00yrs at Lorton or Life, whichever comes first. I did manage to get a decent collection of "stuff" at both places but found much more in Fredericksburg. Had a friend that had 4 acres next to the battlefield by the horse trenches and did very well there. Best we did was one sword, many balls and some "thingys" we couldn't identify. A big penny or two etc.

Yes - they do tend to frown on relic hunters. My boy and I are into metal detecting and would love to find a spot (private property w/permission, non park public property) where it is OK to hunt.