Tutorial Wanted!

[Semachiah]

Does anyone know how to make a crossbow without any metal? Basically just wood & rope. No clue, no plastic, no, no, no.

[WalkingTree]

You're probably gonna be directed to post in Introductions first.

I'm guessing you mean "no glue" not "no clue".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTuzEFQNSU4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLoukoBs8TE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqxCsvCLC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiYdh3JpAO4

Just some random youtube searches. Where someone uses tape, you can use natural cordage. One is a bow, not crossbow.

[hunter63]

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.....
There is an intro section at
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

Don't have any personnel knowledge on a wooden crossbow, but short search on Google says.....About 353,000 results (0.49 seconds)

[hunter63]

Or

[finallyME]

If you make it out of wood, with no metal...you will need glue. People back in the day made them with glue as well...that is what horses are for.

My advice, make a bow first.

[kyratshooter]

My advice, make a bow first.

I have to agree with FM.

I have a couple of commercial crossbows and have made a bunch of them over the years.

A home made crossbow fashioned from wood is going to have a lot of handicaps.

No matter how powerful they look on You-tube they are extremely short range tools and their power drops off drastically in flight. That arrow falls like a rock out past 5 yards.

The limbs on a wooden home made crossbow are going to take a set and lose all their punch real quickly. I mean quick as in a few hours, not days or weeks. They have to be kept at full draw for far too long, even if only cocked immediately before use. One of the first rules of using primitive bows is that you never hold them at full draw more than a split second.

A crossbow of a specific draw weight will give about the same performance of a regular bow 1/3 as strong. Meaning that if I make a pitiful crude regular bow from nothing but a tree limb and a boot lace, that draws at 20 pounds, I would have to make a crossbow with a 60# draw weight to equal its performance.

And since you are going to need to learn to make a bow anyway, why not just make a good standard bow and have better range, power and accuracy in an easier to make package?

If you are simply determined to make a crossbow from all wood and fiber the google the Vietnamese crossbow from south east Asia. They are the most dead-pan simple I have ever seen and they were quite effective in the hands of the mountain people where they originated.

https://www.google.com/search?q=viet...HfaJAhAQsAQIGw

[WalkingTree]

Glad you've mentioned that stuff. Always seemed to me to be some practicality problems with a lot of the homemade stuff showcased on you tube. But I wasn't sure of what questions I should be asking. I think that there is a temptation among many to believe that (with homemade or wild-made stuff versus high-tech-professionally made) with a crossbow you get more stability or accuracy or range. That a person doesn't need to practice and get-good as much with a crossbow. But that never seemed to me to be the right thinking (for the home and wild made). And I've always wondered about how the performance of a tree limb or piece of bamboo evolves after construction...and I see so many problems with the homemade/wildmade stuff - lots of weak points in design making it almost useless in reality. (Unless a whole lot more attention and craftsmanship is put into these homemade and wildmade items.)

The limbs on a wooden home made crossbow are going to take a set and lose all their punch real quickly. I mean quick as in a few hours, not days or weeks. They have to be kept at full draw for far too long, even if only cocked immediately before use. One of the first rules of using primitive bows is that you never hold them at full draw more than a split second.

For example...what do you mean with this ^ specific part? I have a feeling that here you are talking about what always didn't seem to jive to me.

That Vietnamese crossbow does indeed look amazing.

[kyratshooter]

A bow works because wood has a viscoelastic structure. The fibers are designed to conduct water up and down the tree and we dry then out and change their use. The fibers were never intended to be a bow.

Each time one stretches those fibers they lose a little of their spring. The more water still in the wood the more spring they lose. The longer we hold the bow at full draw the more spring the bow loses.

A well dried bow will relax back to its original shape. A wet bow will take a set. If you leave a wet greenwood bow strung overnight it will be a curve by the next morning. You will hae to keep raising the brace height to take the slack out of the string.

Even with a well made and properly dried bow there will be a difference between shots if one holds the bow at full draw for any length of time. The velocity of the arrow, and its accuracy will be different for each shot depending on how long you held at full draw while guarantying a perfect aim.

It is recommended that one draw to the anchor point, aim instantly and release, holding at full draw for no more than a second and making each shot as close to identical as the last.

Modern materials are not affected in this way.

We have been shooting fiberglass, laminated and compound bows for so long most people do not know or remember the old rules and methods for shooting stick bows.

[WalkingTree]

I always wondered how much that'd happen. And you're saying that it's not only a problem, but a big problem. Seems to me, enough to make all the effort into a wildmade or wooden crossbow a total waste. Hardly any use for the thing at all. Better off using less effort and time for just a bow. So I guess in real practice a person gets a lot of experience because he's constantly making a new one. And starting it well ahead of when it'd be needed also, so it can dry out. I can see that the advantage of a bow over a crossbow is that it intrinsically doesn't need to be cocked and stay cocked for any real time. And that's why they're probably carried around un-strung until use.

[kyratshooter]

All in all I would consider taking the time from food gathering, shelter building and tool making to fashion a cross-bow as a waste of time and calories. A good atal-atal would send a full sized dart farther than the average "wild made" crossbow would launch its spindly arrow and would consume a fraction of the time.

Plus when you build a spear thrower you have something to knock wounded game in the head! Your first weapon/food gathering device should be a stout stick for conking over the head what can not outrun you.

There is a tremendous amount of physics, chemistry and biology involved with making a good bow and it is all stuff the primitive people learned through trial and error, then passed down through the hundreds of generations before any of it was ever written.

They did not know why it worked as it did, they just knew it worked, some wood was better than other wood and some wood one could work green and other wood needed up to 20 years drying time.

I have been told by several of the masters that any wood can be turned into a bow if you know the properties of that wood and the proper way to work it.

The real trick is getting your arrows right. Inherently, a bow is just a stick with a string on it. An arrow has to be made right or it will not fly.

[crashdive123]

A friend of mine has a very, very, very old crossbow. There is nothing but wood and rope. I'm in reasonably good shape and I can not draw it back.....not without a winch. He thinks it is drawing at over 500 lbs. I can't even flex the bow a little when its disassembled.

[WalkingTree]

A friend of mine has a very, very, very old crossbow. There is nothing but wood and rope. I'm in reasonably good shape and I can not draw it back.....not without a winch. He thinks it is drawing at over 500 lbs. I can't even flex the bow a little when its disassembled.

?!

Ok, now I'm befuddled.

[kyratshooter]

Yes, we realize you are a bit confused.

What does that have to do with crossbows?

Sorry WT, but it was to good to pass up the dig. What are you confused about?

Many of the crossbows of past times were so strong that they required a winch to cock and many made today require a lever or some other cocking device for use. The one I have is 150# pull and requires a belt mounted string hook and a foot loop and uses all my body strength to cock. It is not unusual and is due to the previous stated difference between the power of a crossbow and power of a regular bow.

Some of the English war use longbows topped out at 150#=200# pulls and most went at least 100#. For a crossbow to come close to the same power, in the never ending arms race of humanity, they would need to be in the 300#=400# range.

[hunter63]

FIL was a WWII Vet...Paraplegic....shot a Barnett with 150# metal bow cira 1970's.......and uses a metal lever to cock it.

Had a special permit to hunt with it....now anyone in Wisconsin can use one......

They are not the game changer everyone thinks they are.

Never did the math, but shooting it...the only advantage was simply being able to carry it around cocked......
Bolt looses energy quickly and penetration seemed less after about 30 ft (less weight)....by shooting broad heads into hay bales, compared to a compound, re-curve or long bow.

The shoot instantly "advantage" goes away after the first shot....as the cocking sequence took longer.....
So a race of 5 arrows into a hay bale was won by a bow... every time.

So I guess I would interested to hear the back story on the OP's request...even if it's just ...."just because".
I fear this was a drive by....No matter, lots of good information has been posted.

[WalkingTree]

...given the implication that wooden bows/crossbows lose some of their flex over time, I was surprised and impressed by the particular item crash mentioned.

Aside from the difference that's probably made in the particular wood used and the craftsmanship involved, it might be a case of needing to make any (cross)bow very hefty and strong - resulting in it retaining it's set and power for longer, though it takes a lot to pull it (?)

[Semachiah]

Thanks for all of the replies!
Of course I meant "Glue" & not "clue".
Let me explain for a moment why I asked the question. I was watching the TV show, "Alone". The thought ran through my mind that if I were one of them, making a crossbow would be better than a traditional bow because of it's size. It would be easier for them to keep close, inside their shelters & using smaller materials. It "might not" be strong enough to kill some of the Big cats or the bears in the area where they stay but it might be strong enough to ward them off.

[hunter63]

I see you line of thinking......But.

Apparently they are not allowed to hunt.....or shoot wolves and bears.
You do not want to just wound either as that just pizzes them off.

[randyt]

Hoods Woods has a dvd showing how to build a small cross bow completely of wood.

[kyratshooter]

. It "might not" be strong enough to kill some of the Big cats or the bears in the area where they stay but it might be strong enough to ward them off.

Does the term "wounded and very angry bear" mean anything to anyone?

[WalkingTree]

I have no personal experience with bears in particular...but with that said, from what I understand you don't want to just "hurt" a bear to ward it off. It'll say "excuse me? let me show you how to put the hurt down". Things like bears and cougars are powerful animals. A result of this is that you can't actually hurt them, unless you're delivering some kind of strike that is more of the "fatal" variety, and you finish it quick before it puts the smack down on you. If you really do hurt it, it might just kill you in response instead of run away. There is no hurting, only killing or nothing at all. Well...unless you're lucky with some bear spray or an airhorn, etc. But if you're talking about any physical contact otherwise, it better be able to be fatal. Not a toy gun or toy crossbow or slingshots with rocks. These things work sometimes, I'm sure, if a person is lucky...but you don't want to expect them to work. Otherwise you're not doing anything to that bear except making him think that it's necessary to tear you into a few pieces. Best thing to do is try and keep the psychological edge - preventive, respect space, know how to do stand offs or backing away, or just pray your arse off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0AHvPpGrDU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPLi_AeFFI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbE53XUtVw0