Group Survival 101.

[wareagle69]

i agre with what vol west was sayi... oh look pretty birdie

[trax]

Geronimo, was and still is the most amazing warrior i have ever studied.

I certainly agree with that. Again too, our scenario is dependant upon environment. For instance, if we were in a hilly,rocky area, we could place Sarge on top of a precipice somewhere with some large rocks and a lever. A couple of our younger guys lead the pursuers down a path below Sarge, Sarge heaves on the lever at the right moment, gasping and coughing no doubt with the TB, but the ensuing rockslide takes care of twenty bad guys, thanks mainly to one tubercular old wretch (sorry Sarge), but thanks overall to the team putting the trap together and leading the bad guys into the trap. No one gets left behind, no pissed off women.

I'm certain that between us, we could think up similar "traps" in different environments, that's just the first one off the top of my head.

[trax]

surprised me too ol vol and trax.

Geez you guys, just cuz we had one little disagreement of opinions??? You check back a few of the threads and you'll note there's quite a few things we've agreed on...and if you think about it, if we disagree with each other that well, how formidable are we when we're in agreement!

[trax]

"It is the man with nothing to loose that is the most dangerous,(in the situation you described that would most certainly be Sarge) and if we feel that we have something to loose, we will be distracted, and fear will become a nuisance instead of a fuel.
We must first think like them. (Absolutely, Know your enemy)
We must enter their minds and pluck out their motivations.
We must become them, and understand them.
The best hunter does this with it's pray.(Very true, the best way to track something is to be where it's going to be before it gets there, track by it's habits, certainly not by it's hoofprints or you'll always be just behind it) It is not being in the "now", it is being 5 seconds in the future...always ahead of their re-action...for re-act they will."

[Sarge47]

This is the 72 hour kit (BOB) from the "national terror alert response center"...I wrote it exactly the way they wrote it, same spacing and presentation.

What do you think of it ?


-1-2 gallons of water per person, per day should be stored for sanitation and drinking.
-method of water purification
-food
-72 hour supply of food and water
-warmth and shelter
-windproof/waterproff matches
-second method to start a fire
-tent /shelter
-wool-blend blanket or
-sleeping bag
-emergency reflective blanket
-lightweight stove and fuel
-hand and body warm packs
-poncho
-light sources
-flashlight and batteries
-candle
-light stick
-tools
-pocket knife
-shovel
-hatchet or axe
-sewing kit
-50 foot nylon rope
-first aid
-first aid kit and supplies
-burn gel and dressings
-bottle of potassium iodide tablets
-communications
-radio with batteries or radio with alternate power sources
-whistle with neck cord
-personal sanitation
-personal comfort kit (include soap, toothbrush and gel, comb, tissue, sanitary napkins, razor)
-extra clothing
-a complete outfit of appropriate clothing for each family member. Include extra socks, underwear, hat, sturdy shoes and gloves.
-money
-at least $50 in small bills in your kit. Be sure to include quarters and dimes for phone calls.
-stress relieversGames, books, hard candy. For children: small toys, paper and pen, favorit security items.
-important papers
-copies of documents important to your family (such as birth certificates, marriage licenses, wills, insurance forms), phone numbers you might need, credit card information
-additional items
*extra food
*camp stove mess kits and other cooking equipment
*sun block
*insect repellent portable toilet-special medication, extra glasses-portable container
*durable water resistant duffel bag, frame pack or day pack

Sounds more like "bunker supplies" than a "bug-out" bag, though I suppose you could include a BOB in their somewhere.

[trax]

I concur, gentlemen.

[spiritman]

Hey maybe the portable toilet has wagon wheels! lol pile everything in it and your good bug out!

That much junk belongs in your house not your bag

[Sarge47]

So i am sure we can all agree on the fact that this 72 hour kit is less than practical.
I was very surprised also to find this list poorly written, with redundancies, making it even more unpractical for the "common" individual wanting to be somewhat prepared in the event of an emergency. Keep in mind this list comes from "homeland security".

I was wondering if we could all together here prepare a new list, stemming from experience and reason, to be presented to their offices or at least be posted here, and that would be easy to understand and put together by the common American family... without breaking the piggy bank of little Lucy.

I also think that this new and improved 72 hour kit should please us enough, that we might make one for ourselves, or for a family member.
We can obviously talk about it, but i would leave fire arms out of this kit.

For starters, it is obvious that this 72 hour kit should be light enough to be carried by this family, in case of having to evacuate their home as we saw in New Orleans. I am against duffle bags, suit cases or buckets or anything that will require the loss of an arm/hand to be transported around.

So the first item we could look into is the bag itself that will contain this kit.
I believe it should be a back pack...
Which one ? There are so many out there...and how big ? For how much ? How is it made ? how many compartments ? What color ? etc...

are you in ?

I'm in VW! I also am in agreement about not listing firearms as that might encourage inexperienced people to run out, buy a gun, and increase the liklihood of: 1.) More shooting accidents, and 2.) might create a conflict of interest with Law-enforcement. Since, in my opinion, cost might also be a factor I think that we should stick with low to medium priced equipment. I'll start out by suggesting a large Army surplus Alice pack. I just got a new Sportsman's Guide catalouge and they're selling them for around 50 bucks.

[spiritman]

Ok so any one can add or change this, 1 (ONE) item at a time, offering a reason for their change.

Sarge started with the pack so I'll add...

Alice Pack
A good knife (I say it like that so there is no more battle, you insert what you prefer because thats what YOU will be happiest with)

[Sarge47]

Ok so any one can add or change this, 1 (ONE) item at a time, offering a reason for their change.

Sarge started with the pack so I'll add...

Alice Pack
A good knife (I say it like that so there is no more battle, you insert what you prefer because thats what YOU will be happiest with)

Remember that VW wants to send in a list for serious cosideration, therefore I suggest saying "a relible knife with a blade in the 4 inch range."

[spiritman]

I agree, we need to be more specific. How about 4 to 6? more room for preference.

[spiritman]

• Alice Pack
• Knife- 4-6 inches in length

What's next?

[nell67]

army type shovel--to dig out possible shelter and/or to dig out/cover a latrine,among other uses.

[spiritman]

Well I don't know to much about a pack so in that I have no input other than I like having a water reservoir but it makes water conservation a challenge for a while since it's right there all the time and you can't see how much you have left.

I do know what I have learned about knives. It's just harder to lose or break a fixed blade knife. End of story. And you wear it on your belt or the packs belt so pack space doesn't matter as much. I would go with a buck knife like mine but I don't have the specs right now so I'll get back to you on that.

As for plain or serrated I don't like serrated, but others swear by it. I think it gets in the way of most of the work you will do with it because it's at the base on most knives and cutting rope isn't what you'll be doing all the time. I'd be interested in one that had the serrations on the top part of the blade.

Full Tang for sure.

High carbon steel. I like 420, it's easy to sharpen and clean. Something like S30V however will stay sharper for them as long as they don't smack it around. I like it too but I have my buck (420) in my survival kit to be.


I also like the shovel idea, how/heavy is it? I have a small collapsible backpacking one that's not very big but pretty functional. I have seen one broken though so I wouldn't count on it for serious digging.

I think we can get a general list together, and Volwest can make us be more specific and address each new item we gather as we go along. He's good for us, makes us put more thought into things.

[trax]

I also agree with the no firearms, based on we don't necessarily know who's filling the list, don't want someone being referred to as "Ol' Nine Toes" after the 72 hours.

I also like the idea of one of those small all steel hatchets with the rubber hand grip or the new fiberglass or whatever the heck that stuff is handle. The all steel is less expensive and they're very handy. YOu can carry them on your belt too if walking.

and paracord, I noticed the original list had "nylon rope"

[Tony uk]

LOL, looks like the stuff i would find in a bomb shelter

[Sarge47]

ok...

I think we can all agree on 550 cord.(the real stuff should have 7 strands inside yes? Important, because each strand can be used...)
100 feet can be bought for under $10.
It's one of those ultimate must have. Lot's of fake stuff out there, but the 7 strands makes it easy to spot.
I don't understand why the moron put "nylon rope" on their list...makes no sense.


Back to the knife...Spiritman says good things.
But if i had to make this for a friend, i still think that i would put a KA-BAR in there.
1095 carbon, 7 inch blade, strong, dependable, around $70, it's been tested, it's not too heavy, fits well in most people's hands, is easy to find anywhere...
I would stick with a straight edge...too keep it simple. I think it is a knife that will inspire confidence and trust in it's owner.

Back to the pack.
For now we have the Alice. What do you guys think ?
I do not have one, and i don't know what they are made off. How they sit on your shoulders, if they have compartments...and so on. you guys are going to have to fill me in on that one.
I currently have a camel back BFM at about 42 liters, and a 3 liter water bladder.
Amazing pack but expensive...and i don't think this would work for us here.
60 liters of cargo space should probably be what we should aim for.
How big is the Alice ?

A shovel made it's way to our list here.
Really ?
I have one that stays in the car...it is indeed a great tool, but i wonder about the practicality of such a heavy tool (even the small collapsable ones are heavy).
I suggest that we put it on the side for now...and at the end, if we have room we can re-asses it's place in our kit.

1st, the 7 strands of the 550 (parachute cord) are also made up of smaller strands that can be used as thread. The Ka-bar knife can be bought as low as under $50 at places like www.tomarskabars.com; and the large Alice pack is HUGE! It was used by the military in Viet Nam and could hold a ton of stuff! How about medical, signaling, &/or lighting?

[Tony uk]

I used a 100 liter Bergan used by the British (And the Best) Army to carr a week of stuff in, HEAVY :O

[spiritman]

With what you say about the k-bar I am cool with that. as long as it's straight edge.

I have a camel back type bag too, but not as big as yours but for a bob type thing I would want the bigger model.

[Sarge47]

Sarge..."Huge" means nothing to me...give me liters. IMO, anything above 60 liters is crazy.

For the knife, we have one vote for buck, plain edge...and one vote for the KA-BAR.

-Mirror.
The star flash signaling mirror can be found anywhere and is also under $10.
it's so small and light anyway, i don't see why we wouldn't include one...maybe coupled with a pea-less plastic whistle to complete the signaling group. (probably a Fox 40...should be under $7)

Okay VW, I don't know liters, but according to US calvary, the large Alice pack has 3800 cubic inches of room. I hope that works.