Self Sustainable Schools with Internships?

[7whitewolf7]

Do any of you know any good Mentor or Internship programs that provide the opportunity for employment in the said school? (hopefully most of them). Let me know if you know of any!

[crashdive123]

Send a pm to tjwilhelm. He teaches renewable tech at a community college in Illinois - he may have some contacts.

[tundrabadger]

Schools like academic or schools like survival schools?

[hunter63]

Have you considered the Military?
Most formal schools require payment, as a student.... or teaching, you need degrees and certification.

Informal schools may be an option.....most likely don't pay, or not pay well....maybe look in Texas area?

[kyratshooter]

Qualifications and certifications for survival training and survival schools has always been sketchy, as in nonexistent. Even the best of the lot have had problems and only a few years back one of the most famous of the teachers was sued by his staff for not paying them even the paltry wages he had offered with most of them working for less than minimum wage just to have teaching at his school on their resumes. His name matched one of the primary colors in your box of Crayolas.

He was collecting fees, they were teaching classes, he would show up once a week and everyone could claim they had attended the school of "the great whoozit".

Most of the "survival school instructors" want an indentured servant who will work for free just to say they taught for "so-n- so" before they cut lose and try to start their own school, then starve, then get a real job and do woodcraft as the hobby it should be.

You run into the same thing, with most survival instructors, that Dual Survival has had as a TV production. You comb the nation looking for the best and what you wind up with are a bunch of barefoot nut jobs and resume tweekers that do not have the training or experience they claim, and some are dangerous!

The only trainer that I ever knew who had actual certification and a degree in teaching woodcraft was the late Ron Hood who was a professor at the University of California in the outdoor recreation department. Yep he taught outdoor survival and recreational camping, but the State of California kept a roof over his head and grub on the table. That and he made some fine videos that are still selling well.

If our plan is to open your own school then ditch the idea of working for your training and toughing it out. Most of these trainers are just a name no one knows and having their school behind you means nothing to the guy writing the check to attend your school.

Get some university endorsed outdoor training (every state university offers that in the physical education department). Get some certified rescue training at the local or state level. Gather the information you learn and work through the system.

Then get yourself a business plan and work to the plan.

Military training is great, but it is highly specialized and mission completion oriented (get the mission completed even if you lose a leg). It is also often reserved for specialists who are in their second third or forth tours of enlistment and have a need for the training. You do not just graduate from boot camp and go to "survival school" then go home to live in the woods.

There was a time when the survival schools were only offered to SF trainees and Air Force bomber crews. The SF school was two weeks each in jungle/desert/artic/hardwood forest for a total of 8 weeks. They were well structured and you were only allowed to lose a specific amount of your body weight during the class. Same for the Air Force course, which was considered one of the best in the world at one time.

The military never intends for most of their soldiers to need to "survive in the woods". They intend to bring you three MRE meals and plenty of ammo and know exactly where you are every minute of your day and night. What we here refer too as "military survival" was called a "two week patrol" back when I was a soldier. Sleeping under a poncho, eating out of cans, drinking water that tasted like a sewer and living in absolute misery was just getting the job done, no survival training badge was offered.

[7whitewolf7]

Qualifications and certifications for survival training and survival schools has always been sketchy, as in nonexistent. Even the best of the lot have had problems and only a few years back one of the most famous of the teachers was sued by his staff for not paying them even the paltry wages he had offered with most of them working for less than minimum wage just to have teaching at his school on their resumes. His name matched one of the primary colors in your box of Crayolas.
Most of the "survival school instructors" want an indentured servant who will work for free just to say they taught for "so-n- so" before they cut lose and try to start their own school, then starve, then get a real job and do woodcraft as the hobby it should be.

I fully explored my military options, I can assure you of that. Kyrashooter, unfortunately that is correct, but I do not want to pay for a brand, which is why I'm asking you guys. I have, and am, looking up and contacting people but I don't have many contacts in this area. Plus, I don't want to pay for a wilderness survival course that means nothing to the next 'school' I go to. Also thank you Crashdrive.
I'm actually very serious about this and despite a few possibilities I've found, I really just need somewhere I can gather the necessary experience and then go from there. I don't plan on opening my own school, the 'come for a day and be certified' is just... ludicrous, and stinks of commercialism.
Do any of you have any contacts who might want a student dedicated to learning for the long term?

[tundrabadger]

Why not approach it from a different angle? You might not be able to find a survival school that does internships, but you might be able to get work at an outfitter of some kind, or with an eco tourism business. Heck, I know for a fact that there are some really out of the way places in Canada that bring WWOOFers in, you could volunteer at some of those and get real hands on experience. Maybe you wouldn't be at a survival school, but you could still improve your outdoor skills. Maybe look in to Outward Bound.


University is absolutely worth looking in to, like Kyrat said. Heck, I seem to remember the college over in Gatineau (read; the city directly across the river from Ottawa) offering a program in wilderness guiding. You'd get a good foundation that you could build on, and the all important piece of paper that you can take places and go "hey, I can do this thing.". Just being able to do something doesn't count for much these days. You need some kind of documentation proving it.

[7whitewolf7]

Why not approach it from a different angle? You might not be able to find a survival school that does internships, but you might be able to get work at an outfitter of some kind, or with an eco tourism business. Heck, I know for a fact that there are some really out of the way places in Canada that bring WWOOFers in, you could volunteer at some of those and get real hands on experience. Maybe you wouldn't be at a survival school, but you could still improve your outdoor skills. Maybe look in to Outward Bound.
University is absolutely worth looking in to, like Kyrat said. Heck, I seem to remember the college over in Gatineau (read; the city directly across the river from Ottawa) offering a program in wilderness guiding. You'd get a good foundation that you could build on, and the all important piece of paper that you can take places and go "hey, I can do this thing.". Just being able to do something doesn't count for much these days. You need some kind of documentation proving it.

I am not at all fixed on survival schools, and as you say, just being able to do something isn't good enough. But getting certificates is actually easy if you pay and take classes at the right place. But I'm also looking for the other half, and actually WWOOF sounds awesome as a start. (looking into it right now, thanks)

[tundrabadger]

One caveat...coming from a guy with TESL certificate that won't get him work in his own country... if you're getting a certificate of any kind, make sure it's going to be recognized elsewhere.

[wilderness medic]

Qualifications and certifications for survival training and survival schools has always been sketchy, as in nonexistent. Even the best of the lot have had problems and only a few years back one of the most famous of the teachers was sued by his staff for not paying them even the paltry wages he had offered with most of them working for less than minimum wage just to have teaching at his school on their resumes. His name matched one of the primary colors in your box of Crayolas.

He was collecting fees, they were teaching classes, he would show up once a week and everyone could claim they had attended the school of "the great whoozit".

That wouldn't happen to be Tom Brown would it?

[Rick]

I think it was Red Green.

[randyt]

contact eustace conway at turtle island preserve.

[kyratshooter]

Perhaps I fail to understand what your intent or need for such a program is?

Is this purely self improvement, maximization of skill set, recreational?

If that is the case, and you want a hands on training situation, and since you are in Texas, you should contact these men;

http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/moreamm.html

The NAMM have been in existence for almost 50 years and teach to a skill level most other groups only dream of attaining. Most long term reenactors know about the group and while the average reenactor might have an outdoor rating above novice the NAMM members are right up there with the top teachers and trainers. They just do it dressed as pioneers.

Yes they dress funny, but when you get past the funny costumes you wind up with a skill set requirement for full membership that is amazing.

If you read the requirements for Bossloper (full member rating), you will probably find that they require and teach what you are seeking, or more.

You have a year of internship, another year or two of training, then you reach full membership. All it will cost you is the time, equipment expense and a small fee for dues.

You are in the region for the Poison River Brigade, contact them.

[7whitewolf7]

contact eustace conway at turtle island preserve.

I am 19 years old, and his internships require an age of at least 25. I'll email him anyway, but I doubt that will work... unfortunately.
My goal is to aquire a skill set, and yes that is good advice! Also even though I live in Texas now, if I find a program, but it's in Colorado I can always move there.

[tundrabadger]

So, are you wanting to acquire the skill set for aquisition's sake, as a hobby, or do you have other plans? If you don't mind my asking, what are you up to otherwise? School? Work? school and work?

[kyratshooter]

I am also slightly confused with the trial of this thread.

You will not state what you want, or the reason you want it, but everything we offer as a solution to this vague logic is not what you want???

you want "skills"??

what skills?

for what region?

for use under what conditions?

for what reason?

you want to build fires, you can find that skill set where you are in Texas.
You want shelter building, you can find that skill set where you are.
you want water purification, you can find that where you are.
You want eatable plant identification or trapping skills, you can get that where you are.
You want first aid or advanced emergency medical training, you can get that where you are.

I can not understand the need to have an individual hold your hand and guide you to HIS version of these abilities when you can stay where you are, learn the skills, especially the medical skills, from qualified and certified individuals and have more and better knowledge than you will get from any one individual who is probably not formally trained in any of them.

If you had spent as much time searching for the classes on these topics that are being presented near you by state and local associations, you could have already had several weekends of free or reasonably priced training scheduled at the Red Cross and State and local parks.

At 19 your one largest survival need is a real job paying real money. You will feel much less inclined to escape reality and work for someone else for free when you get that little "survival skill" accomplished.

[finallyME]

Most of the "BIG" name survival schools and instructors acquired their skills on their own. They went out in the woods and figured it out. They did it for years.
It doesn't matter what certification you get. There is no governing body of survival course material or schools.

http://www.codylundin.com/choosing.html
http://www.codylundin.com/Building_credibility.html

[kyratshooter]

And once more we are taking advice from a barefoot hippie "survival expert" who was fired from Dual Survival for Health and safety violations.

Yep he has a great skill set for the desert, but we have all seen him do some dumb@$$ stunts all over the rest of the world. I have hardly ever seen a Dual Survival show where I would not have walked away and left his barefoot butt sitting on a log chewing berries and contemplating his bleeding feet.

Just goes to reinforce the concept that there are no sanctioning or testing agencies to guarantee competence from survival instructors.

You have to have a college degree and continuing education to teach kindergarteners to raise their hands to go pee, but any fool with a computer can set themselves up as a survival instructor.

Of course most of what you need to know to stay alive you learned in Kindergarten, so that cancels the point.

[7whitewolf7]

I'm interested in living self-sustainably and I also have an interest in permaculture and Wilderness Survival. Right now, I'm trying to get experience toward some of those goals, and honestly after the research I've done survival school's arn't worth it. People will teach WWOOFers and other work-trade positions skills starting from the ground up. But theres always the risk you'll purely be free labour, and learn anything you hope to.
What have you gyus done to get where you are? (or is there a link to a forum conversation regarding this already)
I can tell you my 'dream' even if it has little chance od sucess, but it is not what I base my decisions on. (to buy a good number of acres to make a self-sustainable farm and host survival classes on it).

[crashdive123]

What have you gyus done to get where you are? (or is there a link to a forum conversation regarding this already)

For me, I worked my butt off. Spent over 20 years in the military, went to school (several times), earned a decent living, started my own business, spent a lot of time outdoors doing what I loved.....and on and on.

During each and every one of those "things" I made more than my fair share of mistakes. Hopefully I learned from them and did not repeat them (at least not too often).

Set goals - be specific!!! Work toward those goals. If you are doing something, or about to - ask yourself "Does this help me achieve one of my goals?" If the answer is no - then you need to decide of that task, thing, or undertaking is worth it since it will not help you get to where you want to go.