Just when you thought it couldn't get any dumber

[Grizz123]

I think you could support the statement that most active shooters shot themselves after armed responders appeared on the scene.

There have been several stories of teachers resisting in various ways that resulted in the teachers death and continued assault on the school by the shooter.

I could dig up a couple of stories off the top of my head where a person with a handgun engaged an active shooter and either died or been wounded without stopping the spree. One was a mall shooting a couple years back. You are engaging a gunman armed with a rifle and you have a handgun (probably a sub compact). Anyone with practical experience on a firing range with both weapons isn't gonna like those odds. Unfortunately, the people that engage the shooter often try to stop them by yelling, "drop the gun" or something like that.

Also, lets say some 9 year old got lucky and beaned the shooter with a can of Van Camps. The school board would immediately suspend that student and ban the possession of tactical assault beans from with 100 yards of any school.

Having declared these schools a can free zone, have we not opened them up to attacks by assault asparagus? A barrage of broccoli? Canned corn carnage? Deadly dumpling destruction? Erie endive encounter? Flying fennel fiasco?

So your response is to do nothing and hope the bad guy does not hit you?

[hunter63]

The problem here is people trying to apply logic when there really isn't any......

I can see an attempt and desire to do "something".....so the can of beans may seem more logical to some one that know that guns, knives, baseball bats are an absolute PC no-no.

The whole thing seem like a sick attempt to continue draw attention to gun control.....again.....
As in:
"Take away everyone guns and we will have no need for tactical cans of beans....and everyone will live happily ever after."

[Grizz123]

The problem here is people trying to apply logic when there really isn't any......

I can see an attempt and desire to do "something".....so the can of beans may seem more logical to some one that know that guns, knives, baseball bats are an absolute PC no-no.

The whole thing seem like a sick attempt to continue draw attention to gun control.....again.....
As in:
"Take away everyone guns and we will have no need for tactical cans of beans....and everyone will live happily ever after."

I was looking at it from the perspective of "if you wont let us have guns, we will use whatever we have to defend ourselves". And as dumb as "arming" the kids with cans sounds, its better than being a sitting duck, waiting to get shot because the teachers are not aloud to be armed and properly trained or having armed LEO's (ex military or security firm) walking the property.

[hunter63]

Now that I think of it.....baseball bats are sounding better than soup cans.......

[dkr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzAQFIQjqcg

at the (about) 2.00 minute mark.... a real can shooter, powerful enough to kill.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have....cans?

[LowKey]

Has anyone determined if this isn't just an attempt by someone who actually favors having an armed resource officer in the school? Maybe they're drawing attention to the fact they would rather have an armed officer rather than relying on kids with cans of beans. Like, "Hey parents, your kids are potentially sitting ducks here and I'm just drawing attention to that fact by my request for canned goods.)

I don't know. Sounds like something I might come up with. I'm an instigator-by-design kind of guy.

Guessing though that's giving this person too much benefit of the doubt.

[Batch]

So your response is to do nothing and hope the bad guy does not hit you?

Not at all. I am saying that I would not support training kids to throw cans at an active shooter as a good security measure or even a sane response to one.

Also, that the implication that all shooters, when face with any resistance, just shoots themselves in the head is wrong. It is usually when an armed responder arrives and challenges them.

[Rick]

There are so many things that can be done in place of suggesting that 12-13 year olds try to defend themselves with anything. Harden the structure. Prevent open access by installing video cameras and locked doors that can only be opened by someone inside. Install security officers with weapons. Allow teachers the right of concealed carry in the classroom. I would not want a pre-teen or young teen defending themselves with anything in that environment. Cans or otherwise. This is an instance when avoidance is the better road. Giving the structure the ability to provide avoidance keeps the shooter out.

[natertot]

I agree hunter, batch and rick.

My thought is if the teacher doesn't have a viable means of defense, the best thing to truly do is lock the classroom door and position everyone in the room out sight. There should also be a code word that only school staff have and can give to police upon arrival. When police or staff approach a door, they say the code word and wait for a response. There should be two response words, one that means all is well in the room and one that indicates duress. These words should be changed often to maintain their integrity. I guarantee this will save more lives than a can of anything.

[LowKey]

Hardening schools has always been my option. Mag lock doors that close from the main office that will section off hallways would be a major deterrent to access.

Panic Rooms between classrooms, while they take up space, are also an option.

Most schools require glass viewing windows so the inside of the classroom can be seen from the corridor, I guess so no child molesting can happen. Those need to be hardened as well. Bullet-proof plastics are no longer cost prohibitive.

[natertot]

+1 low key, good ideas.

[finallyME]

Harden the school, arm teachers.....I agree with the many options people have submitted.

But....if I were a cornered student with a gunman across the room.....I would want something heavy that I could throw at him. Just sayin...

[natertot]

Harden the school, arm teachers.....I agree with the many options people have submitted.

But....if I were a cornered student with a gunman across the room.....I would want something heavy that I could throw at him. Just sayin...

I think there are plenty of options within the school already that would work better than storing canned food. I was a freshman in high school the school year after columbine occurred. Our teachers were telling us we were supposed to turn off the lights and shelter under the desks. I pretty much told my teacher a shooter is not a tornado and that I would be hiding behind the door with a big pair of sharp scissors. The following week I had a required meeting with my school counselor........

[crashdive123]

I think there are plenty of options within the school already that would work better than storing canned food. I was a freshman in high school the school year after columbine occurred. Our teachers were telling us we were supposed to turn off the lights and shelter under the desks. I pretty much told my teacher a shooter is not a tornado and that I would be hiding behind the door with a big pair of sharp scissors. The following week I had a required meeting with my school counselor........

Your teacher had to change out all of the scissors didn't she?

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

[natertot]

No, not really. The teacher was concerned with my "creative level of violent thinking". I had to spend 30 minutes convincing the counselor I was not violent nor do I look for violence but when placed in the right circumstances I will defend myself to the end and I will not fight fair. After the meeting my parents were called and they reiterated to the counselor that I was taught not to start fights but that I should defend myself in the right situations. My family and I never heard another word about it after that.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if that is why all my mandatory class schedules prevented me from taking art class as an elective......

[Rick]

.if I were a cornered student with a gunman across the room.....I would want something heavy that I could throw at him. Just sayin...

Toby was always pretty heavy. He probably would make a better shield though. He could hide three or four kids behind him.

[Winnie]

Toby was always pretty heavy. He probably would make a better shield though. He could hide three or four kids behind him. [/COLOR]

Oooo you bad....

[rebel]

That's clazy

[hunter63]

Toby was always pretty heavy. He probably would make a better shield though. He could hide three or four kids behind him. [/COLOR]

Ah ha,.....The old , "only have to run faster than you" defense.......Survival of the smallest?

[Grizz123]

Hardening schools has always been my option. Mag lock doors that close from the main office that will section off hallways would be a major deterrent to access.

Panic Rooms between classrooms, while they take up space, are also an option.

Most schools require glass viewing windows so the inside of the classroom can be seen from the corridor, I guess so no child molesting can happen. Those need to be hardened as well. Bullet-proof plastics are no longer cost prohibitive.

Mag lock the doors from the main office? How many kids and teachers will be trapped in the hallways with the bad guy?

I agree hunter, batch and rick.

My thought is if the teacher doesn't have a viable means of defense, the best thing to truly do is lock the classroom door and position everyone in the room out sight. There should also be a code word that only school staff have and can give to police upon arrival. When police or staff approach a door, they say the code word and wait for a response. There should be two response words, one that means all is well in the room and one that indicates duress. These words should be changed often to maintain their integrity. I guarantee this will save more lives than a can of anything.

Code words? Really? Think about it, we already have countless code words (passwords) to remember and now you want to give a bunch of teachers and LOE's more words to remember? What about when a teacher gets sick and they have a sub come in? What about kids in the hallway, will they have passwords too? The number of people "in the loop" is ridiculous and expecting them to remember new passwords/codewords that get changed on a regular basis is not doable

I think there are plenty of options within the school already that would work better than storing canned food. I was a freshman in high school the school year after columbine occurred. Our teachers were telling us we were supposed to turn off the lights and shelter under the desks. I pretty much told my teacher a shooter is not a tornado and that I would be hiding behind the door with a big pair of sharp scissors. The following week I had a required meeting with my school counselor........

so being within close contact of the bad guy is ok for you (scissors behind the door) but throwing cans from a distance is not a good idea?

Preventing the bad guys from entering, is the best choice, but that has never stopped the bad guys. Kids are bringing weapons into schools that have metal detectors at every door. Sandy Hook had a video security system but the bad guy shot the windows out and walked in.

The last line of defense is the person looking down the wrong end of the barrel and I have no doubt that person would much rather have a can of beans to throw and a chance of survival vs. do nothing and die.