Winchester 9mm NATO Ammo Warning

**Rick** · 10-07-2014, 07:39 AM

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/10/01...kly+Newsletter

**ElevenBravo** · 10-09-2014, 09:32 PM

Oh well, I dont shoot Win anyway... Best value and reliability Ive had has been PMC, and believe it or not... Ive had great luck with Blazer brass!

Now I just need a reloader for all the brass Ive been saving...

EB

**canid** · 10-10-2014, 01:29 AM

Who would think that the surplus NATO loading would be up into NATO specs?

**natertot** · 10-11-2014, 12:26 AM

Really? The box does not say Luger, so why would one just assume that it is okay for pistols marked "Luger"? Winchester is okay on this one. Shooters need to follow basic gun safety rules or succumb to their own stupidity.......

**canid** · 10-11-2014, 12:38 AM

On the upshot; maybe press like this will make people hesitant to buy it so the price will be driven down

One can hope.

**kyratshooter** · 10-11-2014, 01:30 AM

A lot of folks do not realize that American specs for 9mm are a reduced load compared to the European specs, which is the NATO standard.

And the box is marked 9mm NATO right there in big letters.

115 grain bullet @ 1400fps is the European standard.

Any pistol that has been approved for use by any NATO nation will handle those specs, but the average person used to American standard ammo is going to think they are shooting rocket sleds at the target.

**natertot** · 10-11-2014, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

....... but the average person used to American standard ammo is going to think they are shooting rocket sleds at the target.

Ain't that the truth! When I was in the service, the only pistol we were taught and trained on was the Beretta M9 chambered 9mm NATO. Halfway through my enlistment I bought a Smith chambered in .40S&W. It was my first pistol ever. I thought the .40S&W was pleasant to shoot compared to that M9!

**Rick** · 10-11-2014, 09:35 AM

Most folks don't understand the NATO meaning. That's why I posted the link.

**kyratshooter** · 10-11-2014, 04:31 PM

The NATO specs are also one reason whey the Europeans never felt the need for adopting our .45acp. Their 9mm ammo is superior to most .38 Super loads and equal to a light bullet .357 magnum loading.

Puts the .45 vs 9mm argument into a different perspective too. They are still not equal, but not nearly as far separated as the American 9mm loadings.

**LowKey** · 10-11-2014, 06:07 PM

Kinda like knowing that you shouldn't put off-the-shelf 30-06 Springfield into your Korean-era Garand?

As a relatively new shooter who had a very very good instructor I was taught about "reading carefully" while in his class. The class was actually given in a sporting goods store and he had us check out the ammo aisle to see all the various types of cartridges with the same size designations. For someone who didn't grow up with this stuff, it was very instructional.

There are a lot of new shooters out there that may not have learned this. Judging from what I see at the range sometimes, I'm certain there are a lot of things they don't learn.

**kyratshooter** · 10-11-2014, 09:06 PM

Reading carefully is always a good bit of advice.

I made several real good deals early in life buying nice .32 automatic pistols that people were trying to make shoot .32 S&W short.

They would chamber and fire but seldom would cycle from the magazine, and these people thought their little Mauser HSc or Browning 1910 was a piece of European trash.

And I was just a kid with $20 they were taking to the cleaners.

All it took to "straighten them out" was using .32 acp ammo.

All .32 pistols are not created equal and neither are 9mm.

**Phaedrus** · 10-12-2014, 05:10 AM

I shoot my HK USP a lot, never have to worry about ammo in that one.

**finallyME** · 10-13-2014, 09:56 AM

Well, I am one of those morons who didn't know this. And, I just bought a box of winchester 9mm rounds at Walmart. I guess I better read the box.

Thanks for the link Rick. Learn something new every day.

**Rick** · 10-13-2014, 11:06 AM

If your weapon is +P rated you should be okay. I can't say about your hand after shooting some of it, though. Me don't likey +P.

**kyratshooter** · 10-13-2014, 12:22 PM

If you have a pistol-carbine you might even want to stock up on this stuff!

Bet you could get 1600-1800fps out of a 16" barrel.

The NATO/European loading is partly due to them demanding a very stout load for use in their submachine-guns with pistol use a much lesser consideration.

Just consider it a good cheap source for some +p ammo and not a negative situation.

It is really a pity that the write up in the link approached it as a scourge rather than a realistic advantage for those that know.

**finallyME** · 10-13-2014, 05:10 PM

Right now all I got is some cheapy hi-point. Of course, I didn't pay for it...so......

I just checked the hi-point website. They say it is +P rated.

Some day I might actually get a decent handgun...but this one does throw bullets in the direction I want.

**canid** · 10-13-2014, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

Just consider it a good cheap source for some +p ammo and not a negative situation.

That's the way I see it, and while it might be too much to hope for it would be nice to see the prices driven still lower.

It is really a pity that the write up in the link approached it as a scourge rather than a realistic advantage for those that know.

Those that know already know. The article does go a way towards putting the issue into perspective. I feel a bit bad wishing for advantage from a situation like this, but not more than a bit.

**ElevenBravo** · 10-13-2014, 08:12 PM

Im running Sig P250 and 320... from what I can tell, all Sigs can run NATO so it shouldnt be a problem if I trip across any, but Im not going out of my way to find some...

Originally Posted by Rick

Most folks don't understand the NATO meaning. That's why I posted the link.

No fret Rick, we appreciate that!

EB