300 Blackout

[hunter63]

I gonna guess that a 300BO barrel for the Handi is gonna show up at some point.

Was just trying to follow a path of development.
7.62 X 39,...Kinda a 30-30
.300BO tried to match performance of the 7.62 X 39.....Why?

I'm not even talking hunting here....just to have a round close to a AK round?

Just to do it....because you can, ....because it's cool....Hey why not.

I do not have anything against as many AR uppers as your wallet can handle, friend has built all sorts of AR up to and including the .308......and maybe 6 or seven calibers in between 6.5, 6.8, .243, 460.....NOT a problem.

Think of how many Handi Barrels I can get......

[Rick]

Here's the wiki article you posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC....62%C3%9735mm)

300 AAC Blackout, SAAMI short name 300 BLK, also known as 7.62×35mm is a rifle cartridge developed in the United States by Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC) for use in the M4 carbine. Its purpose is to achieve ballistics similar to the 7.62×39mm Soviet cartridge in an AR-15 platform while using standard AR-15 magazines at their normal capacity.

Barrel costs I've seen are pretty low unless you want match grade.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?dimensionids=17125

For $200 or less I can convert my AR to another, arguably stronger, caliber and still use the same upper and mags. The price of the round and its availability are other factors, however.

[ElevenBravo]

Again, KY brings good info to the thread, however to expand on it, I provide the link from Wiki that may fill in any gaps...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC...2%C3%9735mm%29

IMHO, Id just assume stick with the reliable AK platform and the inexpensive Russian steel case ammo and live within the limitations of the CARTRIDGE (not the AK). Thus far, Ive been more than happy with the setup, however if someone was dead set on the 300, Id say go for it... Its not a failed venture. For me, I cant afford the hardware or the ammo, and I also think that post SHTF the 300 is going to be no where as common as the 223 or X39 so swap/share is kinda out of the question.

Again, Im not bashing the 300... rather just giving my personal idea on it.

EB

PS
This was a decent little write up by Kev... Mostly on point with my thoughts...
http://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=239677

[kyratshooter]

Here's the wiki article you posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC....62%C3%9735mm)

300 AAC Blackout, SAAMI short name 300 BLK, also known as 7.62×35mm is a rifle cartridge developed in the United States by Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC) for use in the M4 carbine. Its purpose is to achieve ballistics similar to the 7.62×39mm Soviet cartridge in an AR-15 platform while using standard AR-15 magazines at their normal capacity.

Barrel costs I've seen are pretty low unless you want match grade.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?dimensionids=17125

For $200 or less I can convert my AR to another, arguably stronger, caliber and still use the same upper and mags. The price of the round and its availability are other factors, however.

The $200 is just the cost of the barrel. You will still have to build a dedicated upper unit around it. The complete ready to install upper unit in 300BO was on sale this weekend for $500. That was why I used that particular price. I think the sale is over at this point.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/892...ProductFinding

Unless you are intending to sacrifice an existing .223 upper unit to the cause. Which is always an option.

[Rick]

Help me out here. Why would you need an upper? I confess I'm not a gun guru. I understand the barrel change but why the upper. Wouldn't the bolt and extractors still work? What am I missing?

[kyratshooter]

If you are scrapping a .223 upper for the .300BO you can use the same bolt, bolt carrier, extractors...

Personally, I would want to have both calibers available, so I would want a dedicated upper unit for each.

There are a lot of people slapping uppers together and getting away with it, for a while, but the barrel really needs to be head-spaced to the bolt, and most kitchen table builders can not do that properly.

Just like with any modern bolt action rifle, this is a high pressure round and head-spacing does matter. Most people would not even pretend to screw a barrel into a model 700 action and shoot it without proper head-spacing, but they feel they can slap a few AR parts together and call it a safe build. Just because it locks up, ejects, and the firing pin works does not mean it is safe.

As you cruise the internet you can find all sorts of blow ups that these people are claiming expose junk parts and bad manufacturing of parts, when the real problem is a bad build with sloppy tolerances and no attempt at head-spacing.

[Rick]

Head space I understand. Thank you. I see where you are coming from.

[Wildthang]

If you are scrapping a .223 upper for the .300BO you can use the same bolt, bolt carrier, extractors...

Personally, I would want to have both calibers available, so I would want a dedicated upper unit for each.

There are a lot of people slapping uppers together and getting away with it, for a while, but the barrel really needs to be head-spaced to the bolt, and most kitchen table builders can not do that properly.

Just like with any modern bolt action rifle, this is a high pressure round and head-spacing does matter. Most people would not even pretend to screw a barrel into a model 700 action and shoot it without proper head-spacing, but they feel they can slap a few AR parts together and call it a safe build. Just because it locks up, ejects, and the firing pin works does not mean it is safe.

As you cruise the internet you can find all sorts of blow ups that these people are claiming expose junk parts and bad manufacturing of parts, when the real problem is a bad build with sloppy tolerances and no attempt at head-spacing.

Kyrat,

Oh all knowing gunsmith of the hills, can you breifly explain how to set the head spacing on a rifle? I have always been interested in the proper procedure for head spacing. Do you use shim stock. Dye chem, just how in the heck do you do it?

Thanks you..........WT

[Phaedrus]

I think that's the way to go; get a rifle in .300 Blackout, then pick up a 5.56 upper. Run the BO enough to verify it works and learn the POA/poi for it, then do the bulk of your training with the cheaper 5.56 ammo.

[Rick]

I took your advice, Kyrat, and picked up an AK47 and 1000 rounds. Sadly, on my way back home the canoe rolled so I'm out yet another weapon and all the ammo. It was a Yugo M70 AB2 under folder. If anyone sees one floating it's mine.

[Grizz123]

I took your advice, Kyrat, and picked up an AK47 and 1000 rounds. Sadly, on my way back home the canoe rolled so I'm out yet another weapon and all the ammo. It was a Yugo M70 AB2 under folder. If anyone sees one floating it's mine.

OMG!!!

I have tears for you, how deep is the water where it went down?

[hunter63]

OMG!!!

I have tears for you, how deep is the water where it went down?

It's always 10 ft. past where you can get at for possible retrieval...and a fast current........Sad.

[kyratshooter]

Congrats Rick, you have moved from the world of the complicated, delicate and marginal to the world of the robust and adequate! You are now a member of the 100,000,000+ club! And more than one hundred million people can not all be wrong.

Not much of anything handier than the AK underfolder. Fit behind the truck seat, fit in the suitcase, fit under a parka. You lose you cheek weld position but if you are real careful the accuracy is still there.

You can not use a side mounted scope on them but with all the rail equipped bolt covers you could find something that would be secure and ride on top I am sure. Or just go with the flow, view it as a utility gun and shoot the open sights.

And if you have never owned an AK the breakdown procedure is amazingly simple. But the M70 has a button release that must be depressed to push in the takedown device at the back of the bolt cover. You would have seen it in the book if you had read it before it got soaked in the canoe wreck. The M70 is the only AK with that feature and it eliminates one of the only complaints that are expressed by AK users, looseness, rattle and insecurity of the bolt cover. Of course, theoretically, the AK would run without the bolt cover.

The gun only has about six or seven moving parts in the firing cycle. Carrier-piston/recoil spring/bolt/firing pin/hammer/trigger/trigger spring. They are all big massive parts. In fact, most of the things people do not like about the AR were simply eliminated from the AK design. (15 years before the AR was born)

You might also look into buying a pre-folded 80% receiver blank. 80% frames for the AK cost about $35. If you ever find where the gun sank and recover it only to find the receiver has rusted out you can drill some holes and swap all the parts to the new receiver in about a days work with an electric drill.

As you work with the AK things will go better if you always view the gun as a souped up, high performance, semiautomatic submachine gun with a gas piston rather than a downgraded rifle. When it was developed the Soviets were not looking for a replacement for the MN rifle, they were looking for a better version of the 20,000,000 selective fire submachine guns they had come to rely on during WW2.

One might even view the 7.62x39 cartridge not as a reduced power rifle cartridge, but as an up sized 7.62x25 pistol round! One can view it as a Tork case stretched 14mm and given a heavy bullet, or as a 7.62x54 case shortened 15mm, the rim removed, the case taper changed and the bullet reduced. The latter sounds a bit complicated while the former sounds like a simple sell job to TPTB. The original cartridge, as developed, even had a round nose, like the Tork, but was upgraded to a pointed bullet to get some accuracy out at 200 meters.

At any rate, the DOC really does need to contribute a big heavy magnet and a long rope for inclusion in your gear box. It would even retrieve all that steel cased ammo!

[Rick]

I've tried everything to retrieve the stuff. And, as I explained to the ATF it appears to be 1 foot deeper than anything can reach, including deep water submersibles. So I'm stuck with nothing when the ATF guys knock. I have the PSL or PSL variant or whatever it truly is. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on what they are supposed to be called by they are the same platform as the AK in terms of stuffing. As I understand it, this one is a bit beefier and a tad heavier that most AKs because of the grenade launching platform. I'm going to check with a couple of neighbors tomorrow and see if they will mind me practicing launching grenades into their yard. Or I would if the darn thing hadn't sunk.

[kyratshooter]

M70 and PSL are very different variants.

If it is the Century M70 under-folder it will be marked M70 on the receiver.

If it is a PSL AK length gun it will probably have a swollen front trunion and be made from 1.5mm sheet rather than the standard 1mm.

Most PSL rifles are in 7.62x 54 or 51 and built to resemble the Dragunov.

[Rick]

Gotcha - I just meant that the internals work the same. The gas rod, spring etc. and they come apart in almost the same way.

[ElevenBravo]

I want a mag fed X54R VEPR!

Cant afford to shoot it (even with cheaper ammo... (than 308 etc)), but I still want one!!

EB

[Rick]

I don't get why they are so blasted expensive. My PSL looks the same and will reach way past what I'm capable of for a whole lot LESS money. It's mag fed, fires the 54R and makes me look much smarter than I am. Yeah I know they are built with Russian heavy duty parts. They aren't $800 more heavy duty than my PSL.

[ElevenBravo]

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/ak-...pr-rifles.html

Yeah, for the money I could invest in a backup/handout AK and another 1K rnds of ammo!!!

I still want one, but the Mosin will keep the urges at bay... For now...

EB

[SARKY]

Well I guess I'll put my $.02 in. Both the .300BK and the 6.8 are expensive to feed. Of the two the 6.8 is the worst as you won't be able to find any cheap parent cartridge to form into the 6.8.There is nothing that the .330BK can do that the 7.62x39 can't except reliably feed in an AR. If you want performance, MOA or better, retained energy down range, great trajectory and less cross wind effect, then it is the 6.5 Grendel you want. The ballistics rival the .308 out to 1000 meters. It can be made from 7.62x39 brass (I've done this). Even the newly formed brass that hasn't had the body blown out yet is very accurate. Yes you will need a barrel, bolt and magazines(the magazines are limited to 25 rounds and are the same length as a 30 round 5.56).
Right now I'm playing with the .30 mini whisper which is the 7.62x25 cartridge loaded with a 125 grain bullet. I'm building this on a .30 carbine receiver I have and a short chambered carbine barrel loads run from 1200 - 1500 fps