Questions about compasses

**Ranger_Spencer** · 06-05-2014, 10:29 AM

So I made sure to check the advanced search function before asking this, since I'm sure you all talked about compasses a lot here.

As a park ranger having a compass is like having a heart beating inside your chest, pretty necessary and a huge no-no to go without. I have been using my issued compass I got during orientation years ago this entire time. Its a lenstatic compass with a ranging site system and mangafier that let's you look at a distant landmark and see your intended degrees of travel. I think the average cost of this type is anywhere from 4 to 10 dollars. Pretty easy to use and its highly accurate.

Problem is I just recently noticed, in tiny letters on the backside, it says "not for professional use". OK...what? What constitutes "professional" compass use if not what I do on a daily basis? Maybe land surveys? I don't know but I realize my compass isn't top of the fine yet its never failed me.

What do you guys think about this? And what do you all think about buying a compass for your kits? Do you spend unhealthy amounts of money on one to get top grade, military accurate compasses or does a nice 20$ model from an outdoors store seem to fit your needs? I'm really interested on hearing opinions on this, and maybe seeing pictures of what compasses you all have in your kits.

**Sarge47** · 06-05-2014, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ranger_Spencer

So I made sure to check the advanced search function before asking this, since I'm sure you all talked about compasses a lot here.

As a park ranger having a compass is like having a heart beating inside your chest, pretty necessary and a huge no-no to go without. I have been using my issued compass I got during orientation years ago this entire time. Its a lenstatic compass with a ranging site system and mangafier that let's you look at a distant landmark and see your intended degrees of travel. I think the average cost of this type is anywhere from 4 to 10 dollars. Pretty easy to use and its highly accurate.

Problem is I just recently noticed, in tiny letters on the backside, it says "not for professional use". OK...what? What constitutes "professional" compass use if not what I do on a daily basis? Maybe land surveys? I don't know but I realize my compass isn't top of the fine yet its never failed me.

What do you guys think about this? And what do you all think about buying a compass for your kits? Do you spend unhealthy amounts of money on one to get top grade, military accurate compasses or does a nice 20$ model from an outdoors store seem to fit your needs? I'm really interested on hearing opinions on this, and maybe seeing pictures of what compasses you all have in your kits.

Your kit is only as good as the quality of gear that you have in it. Yours probably won't hold up to the constant hard use it will be getting in the field...hence the disclaimer on the back. I have many compasses. The lowest priced one was the Suunto Smoke Jumper compass for $10. It was taken out of a USMC Force Recon SK that was issued to Marine Corps pilots during the Viet Nam era and is really hard to find out of one of the kits.

I have the Silva Ranger compass which retails between $45 to $50. It can take much abuse as well. In his book: The Ultimate Outdoorsman," former Marine Bob Newman relates how he backed a jeep tire over one of them and it still worked fine. This is a good price on one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silva-Ranger...item3cda658226

I bought one of these for around $11; it is the foreign military equivalent to the military lensatic compass:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Military-Liq...item27e53691a7

I also bought a real military field compass for around $65...they've recently dropped a bit in price. They have the radioactive phosphorescent marking that stay lit up constantly. Given your experience with this type of compass I would recommend it and this is a great price on this model without the radioactive markings:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMMENGA-LEN...item5affe560b8

Just some suggestions....

**Old GI** · 06-05-2014, 11:23 AM

I've stuck with my 34 year old Silva Ranger.

**hunter63** · 06-05-2014, 11:26 AM

I use several compusses....all are in a coat jacket, kit, watch band, ....most are all elcheapo....as usually I use them to make my entrance into a woods, direction of travel, and the way back.

My big pack has a lensatic compass, but not a real expensive one...can't tell you the brand, but I have to say I have never used all the functions it's supposed to have.

Doing a quick look up is see prices ranging all over the place for $20 buck to several hundred dollars.
Are the expensive offering better, possibility....like a $20 dollar watch and a $5000 dollar watch.
Will the cheaper version work?...of course....But how much better is in question,

Most important...... is learning how to use it........a $5000 buck watch isn't much good if you can't tell time.
PS
This was the basic way I learned in this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4SKU20vVL0

I just substitute the start location mag north and set direction of travel setting........for a general heading.

**Sarge47** · 06-05-2014, 12:17 PM

Here's pics of my 3 faves and their strategic locations within my gear:

group11 060.jpg group11 059.jpg group11 061.jpg group11 062.jpg
The one on the far left is the Silva Ranger closed. It sits on a BSA Compass pouch bought specifically for it.

The next is a pic of all 3, starting from left to right, the Suunoto Smoke Jumper Base-plate Compass; The Silva Ranger in the open position; and the US Army Cammenga compass; and the US Army Cammenga closed, front and back. As you can see on the front the NSN designation number, and on the back the radioactive logo and definite instructions regarding opening the back and disposal of....

The Suunoto Compass resides in a home made SK.

The Silva Ranger hides in a small "possibles" bag.

The Lensatic Compass rides in it's pouch on one of my backpack straps.

**finallyME** · 06-05-2014, 01:31 PM

Here is what I said in another thread:

"I have a military issue lensatic that I use on occasion. When I became a scoutmaster, I was given a bunch of scout compasses. They are the run of the mill clear base compasses. None of them had a brand name, except for the BSA markings. I then wanted to get a good quality one with declination adjustments. I did a lot of research and found that the Silva Ranger was a clear favorite. Then I did more research and found that the old Silva Ranger is different then the new one. The old one was being made by Brunton as the 15TDCL. So, I bought that one. Now it appears that Brunton has changed their entire line."

Here is what Rick cleared up in that same thread:

"It's actually about international trademarks. Here's a post I made on them sometime back...

Compasses are a bit of a confusing animal. They shouldn't be but the corporate jockeying that has taken place makes it that way. Silva made Silva compasses in Europe and China. Johnson Outdoors, being the ever shrewd corporation they are, trademarked the Silva name in the USA. So even though Silva owned the compass name they couldn't market the Silva name in the US. So now it looks like this:

Silva AB sold Brunton, Nexus and Elite in the US. However, since that post, Silva was bought by Fiskars who then sold the Silva name to Karnall AB and the Brunton name to Fenix Outdoors.

Johnson Outdoors sells Silva in the US. You may know Johnson Outdoors as Eureka, Jetboil, Minnkota, Old Towne Canoes or by many of the other outdoor products they sell.

Silva has been making compasses for a long time. Brunton and Nexus are just names. They are Silva compasses and both good brands.

You'll see very distinct similarities between all three, however. Very competitive game."

Here is the thread: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...at-do-you-have

For me, with all the research I did (which wasn't extensive, but enough to satisfy me), I will only stick to 3 brands : Brunton, Suunto, and Commenga. I also won't spend over $50. That will give me a dang good quality compass that does everything I need. Now, I may have to change those rules if I ever decide to sail around the world, cross Antarctica, or survey professionally. That isn't to say that there aren't other brands that make good compasses, but I KNOW those three do. FWIW

**hunter63** · 06-05-2014, 01:56 PM

Good summery......Thanks

**Rick** · 06-05-2014, 02:13 PM

A "professional" compass is sort of defined by the manufacturer. In general, you'll find a professional compass to be a more precision instrument. Most will be pressurized since bubbles will form in non-pressurized compasses in very cold weather or at high elevation. These are vacuum bubbles rather than air bubbles since no air entered the compass. Some will have threads for tripod mounts and/or clinometers. Some will have optical readouts for precision reading. Some will have bubble levels built into them. Some use a rare earth magnet to avoid localized magnetic variances and still others might be labeled in MILS for very precise readouts.

Does any of that matter to us? Probably not. If you were a cartographer, civil engineer, lumber buyer marking trees or some other occupation that relied on precise directions then you would. I would guess if you were going to traverse a very long distance where visual indicators were absent, like the Great Basin Desert here in the States or maybe northern Alaska tundra or one of the rain forests then the extra dollars are probably a good idea. But getting back to the truck from the trail just requires some general orienteering for me. About the best compass I own is the Suunto MB6. It was less than $40 if I remember right.

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**Ranger_Spencer** · 06-05-2014, 07:22 PM

Those are some fine looking instruments. Yeah I was pretty sure before this thread but after seeing this I'm 100% sure, I need to upgrade. They just don't give us good equipment when we start this job, and I hate the idea of relying on nothing but a GPS and a cheap compass.

**Rick** · 06-05-2014, 08:01 PM

If it ain't broke do you need to fix it? You said it had never failed you. Of course, there is no harm in having backups. I carry a couple of button compasses that will give me general direction if I accidentally drop my good one in the fire. I've looked at more expensive ones and some are pretty high on the cool factor but in the end I really don't need them.

I slobber over this bad boy every time I see one. Only $450.00!

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**Adventure Wolf** · 06-06-2014, 05:22 AM

A "professional" compass is used for mapping and surveying. Their extremely accurate, usually to .5 degrees.

3H Tritium is the best money can buy in my opinion, but sadly I don't own one...

I have a 401 ACU Digital Compass that I bought from an Army Surplus Dealer at the Raleigh Flea Market (I think but it could have been GI Joe's Army Surplus in Clayton, can't remember...) awhile back. It cost me somewhere in the ballpark of 10 dollars. It's not my best compass, but its a good cheap alternative.

I have a Huntington MG2 that I use most of the time. It runs about thirty dollars new, and well worth it if you don't have the money to throw around. Before that, I owned a Suunto MC2 that ran about 80 dollars, and I had for years and years (at least five or six), but it was lost that last time I moved.

**Ranger_Spencer** · 06-07-2014, 10:33 AM

Well Rick, that's true to an extent. While it does amazingly in the bush, where I need it the most often, it tends to be easily disoriented when in town for some reason. Not all the time, but in some places. I'm just thinking of getting a backup like you said except the backup would become the one I have now, and the one I buy soon be my main one. I mean, I just love getting new toys to play with out in the woods, and I don't care who says I'm an adult, I like shiney new stuff lol

**Sarge47** · 06-07-2014, 01:22 PM

1st, keep us informed to which compass you settle on. 2nd, as I mentioned earlier, you seem adapt at using the lensatic compass in the field, and I think that something along that line should be your choice. In the event that you are considering it here's a couple of military grade lensatic compasses, the 1st without the tritium, the 2nd with:

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-Model...mmenga+compass

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-3H-Tr...8SNPWGGBVVGMAT

Like you, I believe that a profession like yours demands professional equipment, your life may someday depend on it! I envy you as now you get to pick a new piece of equipment! Oh the joy!...

**Rick** · 06-07-2014, 11:27 PM

Pickin' out new toys is easy. You only need to know two things. Internet and credit card. Viola! New toy. And the darn thing comes to you. My dog won't even do that half the time.

**sjj** · 06-08-2014, 02:51 AM

I like a compass that allows adjusting for declination.

**crashdive123** · 06-08-2014, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Rick

Pickin' out new toys is easy. You only need to know two things. Internet and credit card. Viola! New toy. And the darn thing comes to you. My dog won't even do that half the time.

Dog is probably saying.....

Again? His credit card has got to be maxed out, so I think I'll just stay here and nap.

**Rick** · 06-08-2014, 07:38 AM

Sshhhhh. It's the dog's card.

SJJ - You bring up an excellent point. Declination should be a real consideration for the majority of folks. I've mentioned before that I live along the agonic line so declination isn't required around here. It can make a huge difference in plotting your course and actually getting there.

**Ranger_Spencer** · 06-08-2014, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge47

1st, keep us informed to which compass you settle on. 2nd, as I mentioned earlier, you seem adapt at using the lensatic compass in the field, and I think that something along that line should be your choice. In the event that you are considering it here's a couple of military grade lensatic compasses, the 1st without the tritium, the 2nd with:

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-Model...mmenga+compass

http://www.amazon.com/Cammenga-3H-Tr...8SNPWGGBVVGMAT

Like you, I believe that a profession like yours demands professional equipment, your life may someday depend on it! I envy you as now you get to pick a new piece of equipment! Oh the joy!...

Thanks for the links! Yeah, this is more or less what Im looking for. I would most certaintly go for the Tritium one, since I mean come on its not that much more and its a thousand times cooler...*cough* i mean more useful. I meant useful.

As for using this specific type of compass, the reason I prefer it is actually something that takes a bit of explaining. Normally you think about using a compass to pinpoint YOUR location or the location of somewhere you need to go. What I use mine most for is pinpointing the path of a rescue/medical team from their entry location to the location of people who are lost/stranded/need help (80% of the time its when people get turned around and radio in). So, Im sitting in this huge highrise ranger station atop these giant stilts and I find the location marker of the people in distress, which is usually one of the mountain peaks and I project the degrees of travel that the teams need to use in order to reach the distressed in the quickest manner possible. So Im standing atop this platform having to sight up two seperate location and then plot a course, which is where the sighting ability of these types of compasses come in most handy. And thinking about it now, I can actually recall several occasions I have had to use my mini-mag light to shine on my compass so having Lithium would be amazing.

As a side note, if you all are ever "out there" and you need help, having a stationed ranger in a ranger house/platform is SO much easier for rescue teams (and you). The best way to ensure this is to, whenever possible and is most reasonable, donate even 5$ to the local rangers. Believe me our budget is...laughable. Government funded we may be, rich we most certainly are not. and I know I got off track sorry, its just talking about compasses and work and etc, I just wanted to mention it. If thats out of line forgive me.

Also, do any of you ever remember seeing some old compasses with radium inside? My grandfather had one issued to him by the US Army when he served in WWII, and I was amazed to find out that even then radium compasses were on the decline because of the whole radiation risk fear. It was the first and last time I ever saw that compass, since I dont know where it went after he showed it to me one time when I was a kid.