This world has gone crazy.

**Rick** · 07-16-2013, 03:02 PM

I see nothing wrong with LEO using the best equipment available to protect themselves and the public. If they look military so be it. If my azz was out there on the line every day you can bet I'd want same or better equipment than the bad guys have. My guess is you would too. And I still don't buy it's the norm. You can cite exceptions until the cows come home that doesn't make it so. Maybe that's true where you are but it's not where I am.

By the way, you can now post your links. You have more than 10 posts. The 10 post minimum is to help keep down spam.

LLT - "Simply having a p. cooker" didn't get him arrested. My guess is the domestic assault, battery, making a false bomb threat and the 4 hour standoff probably had a bit more to do with it than the p. cooker.

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by letslearntogether47

I fail to see the comparison between LEO's and race,religion or even Zimmerman.
You kinda lost me.

reference to stereo typing, all leo's are the same, all black kids are no good gang bangers and deserve to die. that type thing. like all Muslims are bad because of the ones that are. Its like the way people talk **** about lawyers until one gets your butt out of a jam.

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

I see nothing wrong with LEO using the best equipment available to protect themselves and the public. If they look military so be it. If my azz was out there on the line every day you can bet I'd want same or better equipment than the bad guys have. My guess is you would too. And I still don't buy it's the norm. You can cite exceptions until the cows come home that doesn't make it so. Maybe that's true where you are but it's not where I am.

By the way, you can now post your links. You have more than 10 posts. The 10 post minimum is to help keep down spam.

LLT - "Simply having a p. cooker" didn't get him arrested. My guess is the domestic assault, battery, making a false bomb threat and the 4 hour standoff probably had a bit more to do with it than the p. cooker.

Society has changed over the years a lot, it isn't poodle skirts and Bobbie socks any more Beaver, LE has changed its looks to adapt to today's society. Ya all think Elvis, if he were alive would still be wearing what he did in the 70's. Its like there Vehicles, as civilians get faster and better cars LE has to adapt so they are ahead of the game. It would be hard for them to catch a 500hp dodge charger if they were still driving the old crown vics.

**Rick** · 07-16-2013, 04:03 PM

Well golly gee, Wally. I agreed with you.

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

Well golly gee, Wally. I agreed with you.

We gee wally, you aint even gonna sock me or anything.

**Rick** · 07-16-2013, 06:42 PM

So you're the guy that takes all the socks! I have a drawer full of single socks that the mates disappeared to. Now I know.

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

So you're the guy that takes all the socks! I have a drawer full of single socks that the mates disappeared to. Now I know.

I meant to speak to you about that, I prefer tube socks, them ankle socks aint getting it, if you could please start buying tube socks i would appreciate it. Thank You.

**medic68** · 07-16-2013, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

I see nothing wrong with LEO using the best equipment available to protect themselves and the public. If they look military so be it. If my azz was out there on the line every day you can bet I'd want same or better equipment than the bad guys have. My guess is you would too. And I still don't buy it's the norm. You can cite exceptions until the cows come home that doesn't make it so. Maybe that's true where you are but it's not where I am.

By the way, you can now post your links. You have more than 10 posts. The 10 post minimum is to help keep down spam.

LLT - "Simply having a p. cooker" didn't get him arrested. My guess is the domestic assault, battery, making a false bomb threat and the 4 hour standoff probably had a bit more to do with it than the p. cooker.

Sir,
I completed my POST in 1972, was hired by and worked a major department on the left coast and not behind a desk. I did not retire from the department I left after three years because I saw what it was going to become and wanted no part of the changes. There were three things we were taught from day one at the Academy: always trust your partner, the Dragon always wins and you'll never prevent a suicide. We spent our time working with the community, oh we were our own community in a sense (we drank together and actually had a social life together), but our duty wasn't to each other "regardless", it was to the people we were being a sheep dog for. Todays officers, and I have several in my family, are the most organized group of thugs I've ever seen. My family members included. There is no longer "justice" in the country (at the street level) there is only "law" now. I may be older than most posters here (and more jaded) but when did it become a necessity for the police to serve every warrant as a no knock? The militarization of the police is reminiscent of what happened in Germany in 1934. Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it. Your comments on equipment are just hardly accurate. When were armored carriers needed to look for a bombing suspect in a Boston neighborhood? The operation was a rehearsal for upcoming events. I wish this wasn't the case as I have two children under three. Their world, and this country, will either be run by people who uphold the Constitution or those that will trample it into the ground under the guise of protection. The Patriot Act, as implemented, is a clear violation of our Rights but it was enacted without so much as a whimper from the "People". Why? Because we've become complacent about the Liberty we were give by the Founding Fathers. Does any grown man in this forum believe for one second they (the Founders) would put up with this BS? I think not. When the police want to be part of the community instead of lording over it than America will be better off and you Sir, and I, will stand less of a chance of being killed by the police serving a no knock warrant at the wrong house. As for the excuse offered up that it's a "tough job" (justifying police behavior)............. if it's that "tough" then find another job. What "officer safety" was involved when Lon Horiuchi killed Randy Weaver wife? When Metro Las Vegas killed Erik Scott?

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by medic68

Sir,
I completed my POST in 1972, was hired by and worked a major department on the left coast and not behind a desk. I did not retire from the department I left after three years because I saw what it was going to become and wanted no part of the changes. There were three things we were taught from day one at the Academy: always trust your partner, the Dragon always wins and you'll never prevent a suicide. We spent our time working with the community, oh we were our own community in a sense (we drank together and actually had a social life together), but our duty wasn't to each other "regardless", it was to the people we were being a sheep dog for. Todays officers, and I have several in my family, are the most organized group of thugs I've ever seen. My family members included. The is no longer "justice" in the country (at the street level) there is only "law" now. I may be older than most posters here (and more jaded) but when did it become a necessity for the police to serve every warrant as a no knock? The militarization of the police is reminiscent of what happened in Germany in 1934. Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it. Your comments on equipment are just hardly accurate. When were armored carriers needed to look for a bombing suspect in a Boston neighborhood? The operation was a rehearsal for upcoming events. I wish this wasn't the case as I have two children under three. Their world, and this country, will either be run by people who uphold the Constitution or those that will trample it into the ground under the guise of protection. The Patriot Act, as implemented, is a clear violation of our Rights but it was enacted without so much as a whimper from the "People". Why? Because we've become complacent about the Liberty we were give by the Founding Fathers. Does any grown man in this forum believe for one second they (the Founders) would put up with this BS? I think not. When the police want to be part of the community instead of lording over it than America will be better off and you Sir, and I, will stand less of a chance of being killed by the police serving a no knock warrant at the wrong house. As for the excuse offered up that it's a "tough job" (justifying police behavior)............. if it's that "tough" then find another job. What "officer safety" was involved when Lon Horiuchi killed Randy Weaver wife? When Metro Las Vegas killed Erik Scott?

I've been Involved in LE since 1991 in one form or capacity and Have seen many problems , But nothing to the extreme you claim to have faced and seen. I will not get into a Debate on the subject, i just saying maybe you should be on the phone with the FBI, or news agencies and expose the heavy handed thug cops in your town. Including your family , if they are that bad as well.
May I ask why your against no knock warrants, why announce and have the evidence your looking for flushed, or that kidnapping victim shot.

**WolfVanZandt** · 07-16-2013, 09:41 PM

Personally, I still like community service personnel - even garbage collectors (the local animal control - well, that's another issue). I do wish that the outfits I see were more competent, but I can't blame people for being parts of trends.

**medic68** · 07-16-2013, 10:00 PM

Sir,

If your in local law enforcement, would you trust the Feds with anything? Hell, their boss is Eric Holder............. need I say more. As for no knocks, if they were only being used for substantial drug busts and kidnappings, I'd have no problem with the argument however they are used for everything from traffic warrants to "suspected drug activity"................ which is really not "Probable cause". If the warrant is served at the correct location I have no problem with no knocks as long as the informant's information is accurate (not always the case), there was no BS in asking for it (

) and as noted in the 2002 DEA Memo it doesn't "violate the Fourth Amendment if the officers' have actual knowledge that the circumstances that justified the no-knock authorization no longer exist at the time the warrant is executed. ". Who cares if an ounce of pot get's flushed? The use of two extremes (drugs and kidnappings) as an example to justify their use I find interesting when you know that kidnappings requiring no knock entries are fairly rare in enforcement (see the FBI's current crime statistics). Don't even get me started on the abuse of "asset forfeiture"................

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by medic68

Sir,

If your in local law enforcement, would you trust the Feds with anything? Hell, their boss is Eric Holder............. need I say more. As for no knocks, if they were only being used for substantial drug busts and kidnappings, I'd have no problem with the argument however they are used for everything from traffic warrants to "suspected drug activity"................ which is really not "Probable cause". If the warrant is served at the correct location I have no problem with no knocks as long as the informant's information is accurate (not always the case), there was no BS in asking for it (

) and as noted in the 2002 DEA Memo it doesn't "violate the Fourth Amendment if the officers' have actual knowledge that the circumstances that justified the no-knock authorization no longer exist at the time the warrant is executed. ". Who cares if an ounce of pot get's flushed? The use of two extremes (drugs and kidnappings) as an example to justify their use I find interesting when you know that kidnappings requiring no knock entries are fairly rare in enforcement (see the FBI's current crime statistics). Don't even get me started on the abuse of "asset forfeiture"................

I have never seen or been involved in a no knock warrant being issued for anything less that a Third degree felony , I have seen a couple no knock warrant issued for state jail felonies that involved weapons.
I used drugs and kidnapping because they were the first things that popped into my head , the list is very long. I feel for you with the corruption in your AO with LEO's wish there was a solution I could offer, I have seen some dirty LEO'S but they were always dealt with, it never became more than an isolated incident.
When a CI gives a location and names there is a lot of verification put into that info, I've never seen a warrant issued just on a CI's word. I did a lot of UC on many different cases and have never been involved in a wrong address entry. have had a few mistaken Idents in a sting but that does happen. forfiture

**welderguy** · 07-16-2013, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by welderguy

I have never seen or been involved in a no knock warrant being issued for anything less that a Third degree felony , I have seen a couple no knock warrant issued for state jail felonies that involved weapons.
I used drugs and kidnapping because they were the first things that popped into my head , the list is very long. I feel for you with the corruption in your AO with LEO's wish there was a solution I could offer, I have seen some dirty LEO'S but they were always dealt with, it never became more than an isolated incident.
When a CI gives a location and names there is a lot of verification put into that info, I've never seen a warrant issued just on a CI's word. I did a lot of UC on many different cases and have never been involved in a wrong address entry. have had a few mistaken Idents in a sting but that does happen. forfeiture

PSSSST! No need to call me Sir, welder or David is much less formal.

**Rick** · 07-17-2013, 07:04 AM

I think you brush with a broad brush but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Our LEO are decent guys just trying to do their job and make a living.

**BENESSE** · 07-17-2013, 07:50 AM

It's hard to resist the habit of holding people in power and with a lot of responsibility to a higher standard, as ideally, we should. But these folks are like anyone else and have within their ranks good and bad elements. No great insight there, we just tend to forget it because it's troubling to face the fact that someone who can really affect you life (say, a Dr., LE, IRS agent, etc) can be a scumbag.