Renewable Fuel Standard - FAIL!

**Ken** · 07-08-2013, 10:19 AM

So how's that BioFuel mandate working out for us?

"Seven years later, the RFS has not only failed to achieve its stated objectives – it’s also hurting every American at the grocery store and the gas station."

Is the Renewable Fuel Standard Working for America?

http://smarterfuelfuture.org/resourc...tm_medium=paid

**Rick** · 07-08-2013, 10:41 AM

I went on record back in 2008 that E10 and E85 from corn was the wrong answer. It has caused us to burn more gasoline, not less. It delivers less horsepower and causes problems with engines. The real culprit here is CAFE rules and new ones were passed late last year. But they still look at fleet wide numbers instead of model numbers. When we finally stop giving car makers extra points for multi-fuel engines and start looking at the mpg on a model per model basis and stop converting food into alcohol then maybe we can do something positive about oil consumption in this country.

**Cast-Iron** · 07-08-2013, 12:01 PM

Does anyone believe this is really about conserving oil? A 15% reduction in the petroleum distillate content results in a 30% loss of power. So Mr. or Mrs. Congressman please explain your math. How does this mandate help to conserve any energy or offer any tangible benefit to the environment? Follow the money (aka big campaign contributors), this is all about big Ag conglomerates and their profitability. Sure it helps the farmers in the process, but the real beneficiaries, the big winners, are the companies like Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto. All this new found wealth at the expense of the US consumer. Think I'll fire off a few more letters to Washington. Thanks for posting, Ken!

**canid** · 07-08-2013, 05:05 PM

Besides, if we're going to waste potential food on expanded ethanol production, we still need that surplus ethanol for drinking.

**karatediver** · 07-08-2013, 06:34 PM

You simply cannot turn food into fuel long term and make that work especially when you prop up the practice with government funds. We essentially have a corn market in this country supported by government support to turn it into ethenol. If that money goes away the crash will make the housing bubble look like a walk in the park.

**ElevenBravo** · 07-08-2013, 09:41 PM

The whole system of things is so corrupt with greed, nothing good will ever be yielded where there is a massive profit to be made.

We will only look for OTHER sources of energy earnestly, when the oil has been all used up IMHO. Sad to say, but I think that is accurate.

EB

**Cast-Iron** · 07-08-2013, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

The whole system of things is so corrupt with greed, nothing good will ever be yielded where there is a massive profit to be made.

We will only look for OTHER sources of energy earnestly, when the oil has been all used up IMHO. Sad to say, but I think that is accurate.

EB

Those folks who are flush with cash and power tend to give up neither without a fight. But there may be some hope for real change with Tesla Motors? Elon Musk is already worth billions, so big energy buying him off isn't that likely. Production cost and refueling issues are his two biggest hurdles to reshaping the way we now think about the electric car. The costs will likely come down with greater production and the economies of scale. The billion dollar question is when/if they can develop a user friendly recharging model. They figure that one out and the day of the internal combustion engine for commuting could be over.

**Rick** · 07-09-2013, 08:36 AM

It's not just Tesla. The major car folks all make electric vehicles now and you can find charging stations everywhere. Most major retailers around here have at least 3-4 parking spaces that are electric only with a charging station. Kohl's and Office Depot just to name a couple off the top of my head. My SIL had a Chevy Volt for a company car and a charging station at home. Your economy of scale comment is spot on. The upfront costs of initial purchase and installing a home charging station are pretty steep. That's bound to come down as more folks purchase them and the more models that are converted to electic the more cost competitive the manufacturers will have to become. It presents an intriguing picture for the future with all electric light use vehicles. Next....the big trucks!!!

**2dumb2kwit** · 07-09-2013, 10:22 AM

Those cars run off of grid electricity.
Most grid electricity is generated by burning coal.
This means that most of these cars are really coal powered.

I wonder what the efficiency is, if you figure the whole picture.

**Cast-Iron** · 07-09-2013, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Those cars run off of grid electricity.
Most grid electricity is generated by burning coal.
This means that most of these cars are really coal powered.

I wonder what the efficiency is, if you figure the whole picture.

I know coal has been the largest primary fuel for our electrical generation for decades now, but I seem to remember reading recently that it either has or will be replaced by natural gas. Not to mention the growing contributions of wind and solar. To say that electric cars are really "coal powered" isn't fully taking into account the ongoing dynamics within our electrical generation makeover. As far as the efficiencies, I don't have any information. But I know as long as we have sunlight we'll have wind and solar and we don't have to screw up any more marine habitat to access it ~ like the BP Horizon and the heavily damaged Gulf of Mexico.

**Rick** · 07-09-2013, 01:51 PM

It looks like it's less than 38%...currently. We have a bunch of small generating plants around here as well as larger ones. The small ones come online during peak need or when some place else needs to purchase power on the spot market. The interesting thing is they vacillate between coal and gas as an energy source depending on the price of the two fuels. I guess the boiler is the only thing that gets modified but that's just a guess on my part. It's not like they change every month but they do modify the plants periodically to convert them from one fuel source to another. I don't know if that's done everywhere or whether it's just the local company's method.

We have a ton of wind generation too with over 900 turbines and more farms coming online all the time.

Source of 38%: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...S._Coal_Plants