Rick, her carrying in violation of company policy does not make it manslaughter. You must be joking.
Rick, her carrying in violation of company policy does not make it manslaughter. You must be joking.
I had a compass, but without a map, it's just a cool toy to show you where oceans and ice are.
I don't know if it was mentioned but situational awareness training would be beneficial. At 105 pounds self defense training would be great but avoidance would be great too.
I guess I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.....Just saying.
Wisconsin made a lot of people legal.
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You 'n me both, Hunter.Originally Posted by hunter63
If I concealed carried at work, no one would know unless there were metal detectors. And they would never find out unless I had to use it to save my life or that of others'. And if that happened, well, so be it...Id prefer to take my chances that way than be at a mercy of a lunatic.
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She did mention using it in self defense. But yeah, it was a joke.
B - You asked what's the worse that could happen so I tried to answer your question. That's about the worse case I could come up with.
Most companies will not allow you to even have a weapon on the property. That includes the parking lot. Most states support that. Read your employment clauses carefully. It's cause for dismissal in most cases. In some cases that might include edged weapons.
Indiana just recently passed a law that allows you to carry your weapon in your vehicle on company property even if the company opposes weapons on property. It prevents the company from taking any action against you for having a weapon in your vehicle on their property. You still can not conceal carry inside with a CC permit unless the company allows it.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Rick, I absolutely get all that. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't dream of taking chances, but this is different. If my life was on the line, and no one could find out that I am carrying unless and until I had to use the weapon, I know I would take that chance.
I was wondering, from a legal POV, what Ken thought the ramifications could be in MA.
I don't understand why you would want to take that chance when so many other options are available. To each his own but as long as I have options I will employ them rather than take a chance on losing my ability to carry legally or worse.
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6 is all well and good but that implies no other option. If you find yourself in a position of having to defend yourself with lethal force then you have failed all the avoidance and non-lethal means that you could have used. You may well find yourself in that position or chose to invoke lethal force depending on circumstances (I'm probably not going to be asking a lot of questions at 3 a.m. if someone is standing in my hallway). But you might also find yourself locked in a cage for a very long time and lose the ability to ever legally posses a weapon again if those 12 don't agree with your decision.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Thanks, everyone, for all of the advice. She's meeting with the CEO and VPs tomorrow morning.
For now, it boils down to this: The guy made NO threats. The police will not get involved at this point. She can't carry on the premises.
Fathers are allowed to drop off their daughters and pick them up. So that's what I'm going to do for the time being.
I'm having a friend come along for the ride tonight. Coincidently, he happens to be a law enforcement training instructor for one of the gun manufacturers that we talk about here quite often. We're going to hang around there for a while, and spend some quality time talking about some of the places he's visited in the last few years, courtesy of the US government.
My little girl will be as safe as she was when she sat on Daddy's lap watching The Little Mermaid for 87th. time.
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Rick, you will not be judged by a jury nor will you lose your right to carry a firearm for carrying with a concealed permit at work.
You may lose your job if you are discovered. But, as long as you promptly leave the property when asked there is no violation of any laws that I am aware of unless your state specifically lists the type of business as non-permissive. Carrying in a non-permissive area at least in Florida is a misdemeanor and usually needs to be willful, so I guess she forgot she had it on her. Either way even a conviction for carrying in a non-permissive area is not going to cost you your right to carry.
If you have to use the firearm to protect your life, does your keeping your job even come into consideration? That would be one hell of a job if you answer yes. The job of a lifetime, maybe...
In reference to Carrying a firearm at work when prohibited, I would rather be fired for having it because if they fired me for it , that means I had to pull it to stop a threat, and to me saving a life is worth my job.
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
Batch - You completely misread my post. My response was to B who's premise was that she used it. See post 58.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Rick, I reread it again. You are saying that a legal CCW holder will go to jail if they use it at work and violate a company firearms policy! Can you explain why you say that? Im not familiar with Mass CCW laws, but in Texas unless its a state or federal building or job, all your getting is fired for using your weapon in self defense or the defense of another.
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
My feeling exactly.
Post 58, Rick was referring to:
I'm still agreement with with Welderguy.
I was specifically responding to this later reply Rick. I am a huge fan of situational awareness and avoidance. The options are not as clear as you have stated. While I am not speaking specifically of Ken's daughters situation, even if you are armed you are behind the curve in most Situations. You have to react. Still, if someone comes at me or mine with the intention of taking our lives I will always prefer to fight back then the alternatives. Or to very least have that option.
but, in no situation yet presented would a person who is lawfully carrying a firearm AGAINST company policy would that person face a jury in the event of a lawful defensive situation. If they guy shows up belligerent and confrontational you should go to high alert. But, until he poses a believable threat you cannot use lethal force. But, being prepared for that event is no crime regardless of the company policies.
I agree 100%.
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
But you are welcome to interpret however you want.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Originally Posted by Rick
You may well find yourself in that position or chose to invoke lethal force depending on circumstances (I'm probably not going to be asking a lot of questions at 3 a.m. if someone is standing in my hallway). But you might also find yourself locked in a cage for a very long time and lose the ability to ever legally posses a weapon again if those 12 don't agree with your decision.
You forget Rick, some of us live in a States that allow people to protect themselves, not all of us live in germany USA run by a little hitler. I know of one such case that the shooter faced charges, why because after his daughter was attacked he called the guy up and dared him to come to his house, the dumb @ss showed up and BANG that was it. had dad walked in during the attack he would have been patted on the back for a job well done.
I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"
True as long as you and the State's Attorney agree on the definition of Self Defense. I didn't forget anything. I live in Indiana where common sense still exists. But the subject was Massachusetts where it is now extinct.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
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