Snowden Claims the Ability to Wiretap Anyone at Any Time

[Rick]

Under the revised whistleblower act the Merit Systems Protection Board can dismiss whistleblower cases without a hearing and can refuse court access if they so choose. What's a patriot to do?

[canid]

I'm gonna say; travel to Hong Kong, to Russian and then apparently eventually to Ecuador. I'm pretty sure I would harbor the guy.

[Ken]

I'm gonna say; travel to Hong Kong, to Russian and then apparently eventually to Ecuador. I'm pretty sure I would harbor the guy.

You lost me, my friend.

[LowKey]

All those AP reporters on the plane to Cuba and all they could get was a picture of an empty seat.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...6a1_story.html

[canid]

Which part?

[welderguy]

Which part?

everything after I'm

[canid]

Last I heard, he had yesterday left Hong Kong on a flight to Russia, and Ecuador was willing to accept him. It does begin to look like it's questionable where he actually went though.

[welderguy]

Last I heard, he had yesterday left Hong Kong on a flight to Russia, and Ecuador was willing to accept him. It does begin to look like it's questionable where he actually went though.

I knew what ya were talking about, I was telling ya where ya lost Ken at

[canid]

Haha. I get it now. I'm a bit slow today.

[welderguy]

Haha. I get it now. I'm a bit slow today.

I have had several days like that recently!!!!

[BENESSE]

The story is getting stranger and stranger with this hero.
Before I join the love fest, I'll wait to see how it plays out to the end.
As far as I'm concerned, there are honorable ways to blow your whistle other than going to the "enemies" for support.

Remember the Assange story...hero or villain? (some of you guys wanted to tear 'im a new one, if I remember correctly) The jury is still out on him after all this time.

[Ken]

Remember the Assange story...

Big difference there. Assange exposed things that I expect our government, and every other government with the ability, to do. As distasteful, and down right dirty, as many of our government's activities are, the world is not a nice place, and most nations, except for the very closest allies in most instances, will screw each other over if there's an advantage to be had. We expect nations to act in ways that promote what they believe is in their own best interests.

I view Snowden in a totally different light. He exposed the fact that our government has routinely violated our own Constitutional protections in a manner that screams POLICE STATE! If the fallout goes beyond that, so be it. That's one of the risks a government takes when it ignores and violates its own Constitution.

It's kinda' like this: If you happen to be a serial killer and you store your victims' bodies in your basement, you'd be wise to not sell drugs from your front door, because when the police show up with a warrant, your drug distribution will be the least of your worries.

[BENESSE]

I view Snowden in a totally different light. He exposed the fact that our government has routinely violated our own Constitutional protections in a manner that screams POLICE STATE! If the fallout goes beyond that, so be it. That's one of the risks a government takes when it ignores and violates its own Constitution.

I agree on that point. What makes him suspect is how he went about it and who he got in bed with.
IMO those are 2 separate issues. Exposure, good. Cohorting with the Chinese and the Russians, bad.
There were other, more honorable options.

[Ken]

There were other, more honorable options.

What other options did he have that wouldn't have placed him into the custody of the FBI?

[Rick]

There is no internal mechanism that would have allowed him to report the problem. Even if he had he would have likely been fired and escorted off the premises then called a disgruntled and fired employee simply to discredit him. How do you bring grievous wrongs to light in a government that does not want those wrongs brought forward? What if he had uncovered the fact that the government was only collecting data on African Americans, Jewish Americans or only females? It doesn't make the wrong any more wrong but somehow we would have been more incensed. Since it's everyone it's no big deal to many.

As to his travel to Hong Kong and Russia (if that's where he went) Ken's question is a good one. Where could he have gone? He knows he'll never return to the U.S. so what difference does it make where he goes as long as he's beyond the reach of the FBI. Well, the legal reach anyway.

[Ken]

A few quotes on the subject.........

“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

“To see a wrong and not to expose it, is to become a silent partner to its continuance.” - Dr. John Raymond Baker

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” - Dwight D. Eisenhower

“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” - Thomas Jefferson

“Outside of the Constitution we have no legal authority more than private citizens, and within it we have only so much as that instrument gives us. This broad principle limits all our functions and applies to all subjects.” - Andrew Johnson

“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” - Abraham Lincoln

"The last struggle for our rights, the battle for our civilization, is entirely with ourselves." - William Wells Brown

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert Einstein

"So now is the time, more than ever, for those who truly value all the principles of democracy, especially including dissent, to be the most forceful in speaking up, standing up and speaking out." - Jim Hightower

"We say in this nation that we are looking for people with honesty, integrity, drive and dedication, and then when we find such people, we take them out and whip them." - Anonymous Whistleblower

"The chief internal enemies of any state are those public officials who betray the trust imposed upon them by the people." - Dalton Trumbo

“Fear is the foundation of most governments.” - John Adams

"We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless." - Lech Walesa

[BENESSE]

What other options did he have that wouldn't have placed him into the custody of the FBI?

Same options these guys had:
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. Daniel Ellsberg

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. W. Mark Felt

A. Ernest Fitzgerald

Frederic Whitehurst

Frederic Whitehurst

on and on....

[Ken]

Same options these guys had:
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. Daniel Ellsberg

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. W. Mark Felt

A. Ernest Fitzgerald

Frederic Whitehurst


on and on....

Ellsberg was the only one of these men who purportedly broke the law. And that was back in the day BEFORE the government had secret courts and claimed the right to confine people outside of the country "indefinitely" without bringing charges against them or holding a fair and PUBLIC trial.

Felt only went public a few years ago, shortly before his death, after the statute of limitations had run for any crime he could have been disingenuously accused of, and decades after Watergate.

Fitzgerald and Whitehurst were whistleblowers. Nothing more.

Sorry, BENESSE, there's no comparing these men to Snowden. None at all.

[BENESSE]

There is no internal mechanism that would have allowed him to report the problem. Even if he had he would have likely been fired and escorted off the premises then called a disgruntled and fired employee simply to discredit him. How do you bring grievous wrongs to light in a government that does not want those wrongs brought forward?

You go to the press (think Watergate) where they are legally allowed to protect their sources.

What if he had uncovered the fact that the government was only collecting data on African Americans, Jewish Americans or only females? It doesn't make the wrong any more wrong but somehow we would have been more incensed. Since it's everyone it's no big deal to many.

It is to the press.

As to his travel to Hong Kong and Russia (if that's where he went) Ken's question is a good one. Where could he have gone? He knows he'll never return to the U.S. so what difference does it make where he goes as long as he's beyond the reach of the FBI. Well, the legal reach anyway.

He didn't have to leave once he divulged the info to the press. Much less go to countries that do exactly (and worse) of what our Govt. is being accused of.
Whitey Bulger lived on the lam for 17 years, hiding in plain sight all the while being on FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives.
I am in no way excusing what the Govt. engaged in, but there's more to this guy and we'll eventually find out...as we always do. If something doesn't sound right, it usually isn't.

[LowKey]

I'm looking at the interesting case of embarrassment he is causing the administration as first China and now Russia are not immediately ceding to US demands. It's showing just how far we have sunk as a world power and how few "friends" this administration has...or had...
But, then again, is it at all possible he was never in Hong Kong or Russia?
Think about it. The guy is in IT. He may be smarter than he appears.

As for Whitey, I'd hazard a guess that the FBI probably knew right where he was the whole time. That whole thing screams some kind of cover up or witness protection gone sour. Far too much money and far too little jail time for all involved. I cannot wait for that trial to be done and over and gone.