Bugging Out: Impossible for Many?

[Ken]

We've had the discussions. We've watched it depicted in films like Deep Impact. And the question remains: In a looming disaster, is "Bugging Out" even an option?

I remember when I sat in week-long planning conferences back in the 1980's, when I drew hostile stares from federal planners (yes, FEMA planners) as I pointed out the total impracticality - the insanity - of plans to evacuate about a million people over two bridges - to Cape Cod - if international tensions rose to the point where a nuclear exchange seemed imminent.

I commuted to Boston during the "Big Dig." I've been caught up in traffic jams on Cape Cod, in the D.C. beltway, on I-95 in New York, and even on a weekend drive to Newport, R.I. I remember spending 2½ hours dead-stopped in what is now the Central Artery Tunnel in Boston when a tractor-trailer jackknifed just before the end of the tunnel. I inevitably used the expression, "This road is a parking lot."

Many of us live in urban or suburban areas and, for all practical purposes, have little or no choice but to rely on interstate highway systems to travel any significant distance. The problem is, these roadways are not designed to move more than a small percentage of the population, and even routine events - such as an accident or increased holiday traffic - literally turns these thoroughfares into "parking lots."

Last weekend's commuter train derailment and collision in Bridgeport, Connecticut will cause an additional 30,000 commuters to hit the roads this week instead of travelling by rail. ONLY 30,000 MORE, and authorities predict major traffic jams for the entire week. Just imagine the impact that millions - or tens of millions - of additional people on the roads, in crisis mode, will have on travel.

The reality is that "bugging out" in such circumstances will be impossible for most of us. Bugging in may be our only option, even in circumstances that pose a high risk of catastrophe.

Here's what we can expect in the New York to Boston (and beyond?) corridor this week:

"If all 30,000 affected commuters took to the highways, “we would literally have a parking lot,” (Connecticut Gov. Dannel P.) Malloy said."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...n_road_traffic

[mountainmark]

If I lived in Boston, I would be preemptively bugging out to the country. If I truly had no choice but to live/work there, I would have alternative routes mapped out such as train tracks and power lines. Anything to avoid the madness that would take place on the highways. If need be I would have a second vehicle beyond the city limits that I could walk to. A sailboat wouldn't be a bad idea either, in case the emergency is an EMP. It's just my opinion, but bugging in, in the city, seems a bit crazy. If you could have supplies to ride out the first exodus, you might be able to sneak out afterwords, but by that point the looting, burning, etc. will be taking place. IDK, just some thoughts.

[BENESSE]

The ONLY realistic way I can expect to bug out off of this island is if I have reliable advanced notice about what's looming. Otherwise it would be foolhardy and dangerous to try. I've lived here long enough to know what traffic patterns look like under "normal" circumstances-- holidays, visiting officials, "police activity", accidents on roads, bridges and tunnels, bad weather and just general wtf--so that if TS was really to HTF, it would be a nightmare that would rival anything Hollywood conjured up.

[Rick]

I, too, got to enjoy navigating the Big Dig with it's daily lane direction changes. What a mess.

I think there is a LOT more to consider in bugging out than just vehicles. Bugging out would be the very last thing I'd want to do although I concede there are certainly instances in which that is the more preferable route (hurricane or tsunami threat for example). But being a refugee on the road holds no romanticism for me.

[BENESSE]

There has been many a time when I'd be stuck in a cab on a highway on the way to one of the airports. Nothing you can do there. When that happens in the city, I just get out and walk. Generally I prefer to walk anyway because I know, no matter what, I'll get there. Buses and cabs are only a second choice, subways a distant third.

[hunter63]

After considering the likely scenarios, Bug outs would be last thing we would do.
Fire, flood, tornado,...aftermath....if you make it thru.

Doesn't take much waiting in traffic to realize walking is not likely to be the option....you can plan on bikes, motor cycles, 4X4's, boats .....and some might even consider airplanes....but then again, you will be limited by how much you can carry, and for how long....DW and I the answer is not much.

Big ,metropolitan areas, I can not even imagine how much much worst it would be than a small city....where spring floods and road construction can stop traffic and cause back ups.

Nuke attack, earthquake, EMP, asteroid, Zombies.....I don't really consider to much, as the required supplies are mostly the same as the natural disaster's.....and chances are you wouldn't really be able to do much anyway.

I'm pretty much planning on a "GHB"....or a bug out to a motel bag.....if it's on the road, a "Get to the place bag"......but mostly just a hunker down and let the panic die down.....re-asses and press on from there.

[BornthatWay]

Bugging out is not even a good choice for many that might live in an area that is not subject to such travel woes and where there are many roads that could be taken instead. For instance if you have very young children or an elderly family member or you yourself have health issues that would cause you not to be able to handle the stress of bugging out. Now granted there are some times such as a local emergency such as a hurricane flood or tsunami warning that give you time to get out then certainly do so. But if something happens that has no warning I think many times you are better off staying where you are. At least you are in surroundings that are familiar to you and that alone will give you some comfort.

None of us really know what it will be like if there is a national crisis that occurs and being prepared to survive in our own home in some way is certainly safer than getting out into unfamiliar areas. Let's face it if a nuclear attack occurs many are going to be toast because I cannot imagine our government giving us a grat deal of warning as they would fully expect to intercept the attack and if you happen to be in the landing area of such a thing well it is just too bad but it will be over quickly for those in the landing zone and it just will not be pretty. However with most another disaster I think your home will be safer than being in an unknown area or trying to survive in the great outdoors with lots of people that have no idea what they are doing but have heard that bugging out is the thing to do.

[kyratshooter]

We have traffic jams on my road daily.

Dang thing is so narrow if two cars meet one has to pull over and it is really a pain.

I don't know what we would do if all 12 people on the road decided to go different directions at the same time!

Fortunately most of the vehicles are SUV and pickups so I suppose we could go across the lawns.

You see, I took the pay cut and got out of even the suburban area many years ago. I already live where you would bug out too.

The last time I was anywhere near the city was taking Winnie on a guided tour on the way to Bass Pro and REI! That was in Oct, last year.

You urbanites made your choice, bug in, bug out, walk, crawl or drag your shopping cart through the rubble, whatever you want to do.

You know what is going to happen, but you stay there anyway.

It's an addiction as bad as cocaine.

[BENESSE]

You urbanites made your choice, bug in, bug out, walk, crawl or drag your shopping cart through the rubble, whatever you want to do.

You know what is going to happen, but you stay there anyway.

It's an addiction as bad as cocaine.

We ALL make calculated risks, Kyrat. For some of us, it's where we live (NYC), for others, what they do for a living (combat, LE, etc). Then there are those who take drugs, smoke, drink to excess, eat crap or carry too much weight for their own good.
We make trade-offs and gamble that we might be the one exception to...fill-in-the-blank. Most of us do what we have to do and some of us do what we want to do. Either way, no one's perfect and as long as each one of us is responsible for our own decisions and don't visit them on others, well, it's the best we can hope for in a free country, isn't it?

[Seniorman]

Bugging out? Mostly, in my opinion, the people in virtually any metropolitain or even suburban area who plan on "bugging out" when TEOTWAWKI -- which could be one of many situations -- occurs, are living in a dreamlike fantasy.

I lived in Los Angeles for 36 years. In the 1970s when the beginning "survival" movement took form, I thought about how I would get out of Los Angeles, were a TEOTWAWKI to occur. As for a massive earthquake, San Andreas Fault literally coming apart, there'd be no way out of Los Angeles and the surrounding cities. Hundreds of freeway overpasses falling, bridges collapsing, freeways and streets shattered, literally clogged and standing still... forever. No way out really, by any four wheeled vehicle.

Bicycle? Motorcycle? Nope, one would have to pass through certain communities where a bicycle or motorcycle and one's goods would soon be in the hands of others who'd have no compunction whatsoever taking them... no matter one's handy-dandy Mosin Nagant or AR 15.

We owned a vacation cabin in the Sierra on the western slope at 6,000 feet altitude, 150 miles from our home in Los Angeles. There would be no way to get there, no matter how we tried various routes out of L.A. Everything would be at a standstill, and extremely dangerous.

So, our plan was to carry our "get home" packs in our car trunks and do our best to get home. Several of our neighbors felt the same and there would be some safety in numbers.

I also love these scenarios where the chairborne commandos think they'll grab their BOBs, their pistol and rifle and head for the mountains... where ever the mountains happen to be. If all head to the mountains who say they will, they're gonna have to put stop lights up there to keep everyone from crashing into each other. They'll all just "live off the land" and a few MREs they've stuffed in their BOBs. Uh huh.

No, realistically, whatever were to come, we'd just stick at home and deal with the problem at hand.

Just my thoughts on "bugging out."

S.M.

[Winnie]

Yes it is impossible for some, you may not even be in an urban environment to be in that situation. There are a few of us on the forums, who do not have a vehicle of their own. I am one, I don't even drive. That makes bugging out nigh on impossible for me. The only bugging out I plan to do would be a short term local problem, that would entail me getting on a bus to somewhere safer and booking in to an hotel. Anything else and I stay put.
Bugging out under more drastic circumstances is just not doable for a non driving 50-something with a bad back and knackered knees. I would get myself in all sorts of trouble. However, I live in a small town, and my home is a five minute walk to open fields and the countryside. But to be honest, the idea of running to the wilds of Northamptonshire holds little joy for me.
I find it incongruous that people will attempt to run to the hills and actually seem to relish the idea, maybe they have all the gear and need to justify owning it. As Seniorman has stated, those that are urbanised would probably be robbed naked before they have travelled a mile, and others, like me are close enough to the countryside to not need to bother, but I bet they would all the same.
Now this is where I have difficulty with the term 'Bugging Out' There seems to be several levels and definitions of said phrase, It seems to cover anything from an incident where you are advised to temporarily leave your home, a most likely scenario IMO, to a zombie hoard invading your living room, requiring you and the family to head for the hills in good old Rambo style. Sometimes my poor peabrain has trouble keeping up, I often wish there was a universal 'bugout' scale, rather like the Scoville scale. Sorry, seem to have gone off OP there

[Ken]

You see, I took the pay cut and got out of even the suburban area many years ago. I already live where you would bug out too.
...........................................

You urbanites made your choice, bug in, bug out, walk, crawl or drag your shopping cart through the rubble, whatever you want to do.

You know what is going to happen, but you stay there anyway.

It's an addiction as bad as cocaine.

kyrat, do you know something we don't? Is the Bluegrass Region of Kentucky immune to natural or man made disaster?

Just how can you say with any certainty that you live where we would bug out to?

You say we know what's going to happen. Honestly, I've never been able to find a reliable crystal ball. Would you be kind enough to share your prescience with us?

I've frequently found that smug self-righteous individuals suffer from a condition much worse than the addiction that you say we have. It's called "complacency." Karma has a way of teaching such people a lesson.

Is your home immune from forest fires and wild fires? Are the trees around your home made of asbestos? Did the deed to your property come with a warranty that a meteor would never cause you any harm? Is your home built on springs or will it still shake in an earthquake? I suspect that you may not live in a floodplain. Or do you? Do you have propane at or near your home? Is it the kind that doesn't explode? Do you ever get tornados where you live? Like the one that hit Brandenburg, Kentucky? That was an F5, wasn't it? In fact, wasn't the entire State of Kentucky under a tornado warning just two years ago? Want me to keep going?

The fact of the matter is that NO PLACE ON EARTH is immune from either a manmade or a natural disaster.

Case in point, check out this map of nuclear power plants in the United States. In the event of a plant disaster, why would we want to bug out to where you are? There are so many contamination zones in Kentucky that I can barely make out the state's borders. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwAw&dur=478

We're all getting older, kyrat. Do you ever anticipate having a medical condition that would make living closer to a medical center a smart move for you? Are you immune from having a stroke that would render you disabled and force you to rely on others, and perhaps even move? How about a heart attack - just how close are you to first responders?

I've never had to bug out once ion my life. But according to you, my "bad as cocaine addiction" will kill me nonetheless. Regardless, I'm sure YOU have nothing to worry about where you live.

So guess what... I'll just enjoy my addiction of being 20 minutes from the ocean and 3 hours from the White Mountains. I'll be grateful to live less than an hour from great recreational opportunities, entertainment, the finest medical facilities in the world, world class restaurants, and last but not least, my family, friends, and office.

But you, kyrat? You just stay put and far away from civilization and enjoy being smug while you ridicule us addicts, because you and you alone have found the only perfectly safe place on Earth to live.

[Wildthang]

Well I'm not in the hills of Kentucky or Tenessee, but I'm far enough from big cities that buggin in would work, and when I get old, I am still only 20 miles from 2 hospitals. I will only bug out if it is the only way to survive, and have the items necessary if need be.
I am like Kyrat in a way because big cities just scare the He!! out of me, no addiction here!

[hunter63]

I guess it depends on what is important to each of us.
I prefer woods and country, than big cities, even the city house is on the outside if a small city, The Place is 4 miles between two small towns......But yeah, hospital is 15 miles away.

[Ken]

I guess it depends on what is important to each of us.
I prefer woods and country, than big cities, even the city house is on the outside if a small city, The Place is 4 miles between two small towns......But yeah, hospital is 15 miles away.

I prefer country life as well. My objection isn't to living away from major population centers but rather to being looked down upon because I'm so dumb and addicted that I don't live in the boonies where nothing bad can happen to you. Bugging out is, by definition, using an escape plan when a real and severe threat or actual event dictates that leaving wherever you are is your best option. To suggest that "I'm never going to have to bug out because I'm smarter than all of you are" suggests ignorance of genuine risk factors (some of which I pointed out) that may make bugging out the ONLY option and smacks of arrogance in the first degree.

[hunter63]

OK.....(stepping back)....Y'all have at.....LOL

[GreatUsername]

To the OP: I don't think it's impossible for any given individual to bug out successfully, but it is absolutely impossible for EVERY person from a metropolitan area to successfully bug out without "parking-lot syndrome" or getting accosted in the process of leaving. For this reason, I feel that it's best if people plan on bugging in place whenever possible.

The infrastructure and concentrated population of a city, even post-disaster, will still be better than fending for oneself out in the wilderness, because if/when emergency services arrive (I don't plan for "the end of emergency services and all humanitarian efforts for the rest of our lives" because I feel one could never adequately account for all variables in that situation, and it's just luck at that point, I only plan for a year or less) they will be able to better enforce order, distribute goods, and find you in the first place. The Red Cross is not going to track you down in your survival bungalow in the middle of sticksville, population 35, if you end up bugging out way into the mountains away from any large towns. Also, if you and 40,000 other people *actually* make it to the woods and plan on fishing and hunting for your food, you're all going to starve in about a month at best. If you're completely self-sufficient and stocked with food for it, okay, but I don't like to plan on my supplies all being there, in case one of the thousands of refugees stumbles upon my stash.

Defense of a neighborhood is also easier than defense of a hideout in the woods, because you can blend in more, have more solid and permanent structures, and there's less setup involved. Make good friends with your neighbors, and be ready to share medical supplies, ammo, and food with them, and you'll have a much better time of bugging in as a group than you would of running to the woods with everyone else and their uncle. In my opinion, bugging out is only for dire situations, so being concerned about the risks is ironic. Bugging out is inherently dangerous, so I'm only going to do it if staying put is substantially more dangerous.

[Power Giant]

The ONLY realistic way I can expect to bug out off of this island is if I have reliable advanced notice about what's looming. Otherwise it would be foolhardy and dangerous to try. I've lived here long enough to know what traffic patterns look like under "normal" circumstances-- holidays, visiting officials, "police activity", accidents on roads, bridges and tunnels, bad weather and just general wtf--so that if TS was really to HTF, it would be a nightmare that would rival anything Hollywood conjured up.

You must have ruled out the boat option?

[BENESSE]

About once a year or so, some people around here get that old familiar itch to get their rocks off by bashing big city folk. When they get bored with all the usual reasons throughout the year (too numerous to mention but always including lumping everyone with Bloomberg, the liberal media and the anti gun lobby) they resort to the only thing left: you are an @#% for living where you live, and btw, don't come crawling to my door when TSHTF because I'll be sitting on my high horse with a gun pointing at your @ss.

Cant's speak for others, but personally, I'd rather stay home, crawl on broken glass and drink Drano before I come a calling on you.
People in the cities have survived untold horrors throughout centuries--occupation, wars, bombings, plagues, starvation, and atrocities, and they'll survive again if and when the time comes.

[BENESSE]

@ Power Giant
Yes I've ruled it out and here's is why: I'll be a sitting duck out there on the river if I even make it that far. Besides, I either have to hide the boat/kayak/float somewhere, or drag it with me and inflate it out in the open where it's guaranteed I won't be alone.