Picking Up A Rifle, Which One?

**MCBushbaby** · 03-31-2008, 02:44 PM

USE: deer and medium-large game hunting
LOCATION: forests of Michigan but I want flexibility to use it in open plains of Alaska or large fields, 200-300 yards
PRICE: under $300 including cheap 3-9x scope
TYPE: Bolt action, more than single shot
WEIGHT: less than 8 lbs preferably

I prefer WWII-era rifles such as, but not limited to, the Kar98, Moisin-Nagent, Lee Enfield, or 1903 Springfield... you know, the bolt action flagship models of each country. They proved themselves to be tough, reliable, and accurate... they are also cheaper than brand new models. However newer rifles will be taken into consideration if reviews are high enough.

NO SURVIVAL RIFLES PLEASE. I may be hunting from the bush but I don't want some 15" barrel, hollow stock, all-synthetic, survival-oriented rifle (no M6).

Consideration must be taken on availability and price of ammunition. I don't want to pay $50 for a dozen rounds because no one makes that type anymore.

Please list your preference as well as appropriate reasoning. Thanks

**trax** · 03-31-2008, 02:54 PM

Mitch, if you can get by the big if of buying from one country to another, I see plenty of ww2 era smle's available for around 150-200 cdn. I don't know how their availability is in the US because this was the main firearm for CommonWealth troops through both world wars and Korea. That's short, magazine, Lee Enfield for those who are wondering. It will drop anything you might have to kill in North America and they're usually accurate as far out as you or I need to see or want to pack meat back from. Ammunition is available in 150 and 180 grain, there used to be 210's but I never see that around anymore and the 180 is far more common than the 150. Nevertheless, this is a tough old rifle and I recommend it. Actually, I commend all of your choices.

I use one, I've never put a scope on it. They come with rear peep sights that you can flip up and use a graduated 'elevator' for ranging different distances. Many rifle afficinados claim this was the best all round infantryman's and sniper's weapon in the two world wars. I don't know enough about some of the others you've listed to agree or disagree with them, but it's been my rifle of choice since the first one I bought when I was a kid. This rifle has probably killed more moose than the ice age did.LOL check firearmscanada.com, there are usually a few on there, but I don't know what the laws are on shipping them down to the states.

**beerrunner13** · 03-31-2008, 03:21 PM

Mitch I have a 1903 Springfield and I love it. With the original sights it hits anything I can see and is pretty much indestructable. Ammo is every where CTD has Greek surplus for $7 a box and with all the sporting loads avalible you can load for pretty much everything.The only down side I can see is you like to go light and it is heavy.

**trax** · 03-31-2008, 03:33 PM

That Springfield isn't much over 8 pounds is it beerrunner?

**beerrunner13** · 03-31-2008, 03:47 PM

No I forget exactly what it weighs, it's the newer WWII model made by Remington designation 03A3 I believe. I carry it all day no proble with the military sling.

**MCBushbaby** · 03-31-2008, 04:00 PM

Another consideration is the rifle must allow field stripping and cleaning... probably not an issue with battlefield rifles. This also indirectly limits the number of extraneous moving parts that could easily clog or break with heavy use.

**trax** · 03-31-2008, 04:24 PM

your other considerations make me recommend the LE even more. Simplicity itself to take down clean and put back. Did I mention a tenshot clip...you know for those days when you just absolutely have to take a whole herd of caribou for the family/tribe? Best cyclic rate of any high powered rifle of that generation, too. I honestly don't work for those people.

**MCBushbaby** · 03-31-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by trax

your other considerations make me recommend the LE even more. Simplicity itself to take down clean and put back. Did I mention a tenshot clip...you know for those days when you just absolutely have to take a whole herd of caribou for the family/tribe? Best cyclic rate of any high powered rifle of that generation, too. I honestly don't work for those people.

I've looked at various information on the SMLE No1Mk3 and No4Mk1 and I must say I'm impressed. Aside from the 'improvements' from the no1mk3 to no4mk1, is there a big enough difference to seek one over the other? I'm going to shy away from the carbine version because of the frequent mentions of the 'wandering zero' associated with that model. You also stated LEs can be found for 150-200, so are the prices on firearmscanada.com overpriced? 450 is the cheapest I saw.
If the ironsights are as good as people say they are, I might not even use a scope.

**trax** · 03-31-2008, 04:35 PM

that's where I saw them at that price a few months ago. I talked to a guy in BC who picks up old ones, spruces them up and resells in the 150 to 250 market. I picked one up at a gun dealer's on a rez up north for $150 just last year. How close are you to the Ontario border? I bet there's a few second hand dealers or pawn shops that could hook you up. I like the Mk4, but that's just personal preference. Some guys will swear by the Mk1.

**MCBushbaby** · 03-31-2008, 04:54 PM

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...num=1&ct=title
Just across the lake. Could hit Suex St. Marie in an afternoon

**trax** · 03-31-2008, 05:14 PM

Right on....

**Rick** · 03-31-2008, 06:30 PM

I stumbled across a really good SMLE web site that includes a cut away picture. Look for section III - The rifles.

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/

**Stony** · 03-31-2008, 06:55 PM

SMLE #4 would be a good choice.
have shot some myself over the years, Norma makes excellent ammo for it.

**beerrunner13** · 03-31-2008, 08:07 PM

Trax I wasnot trying to diss your choiice sorry if it came off thet way Just I have an 03 and it was on his list and I like it.

To further muddy the waters Mitch ya can't hardly go wrong with an old Mauser

**awfoxden** · 03-31-2008, 08:49 PM

the old 8mm built on the m98 mauser is a good choice. similar balistics to a 30-06 and cheap.

**MCBushbaby** · 03-31-2008, 09:04 PM

I didn't like the large butt of the Mauser. Had a big metal plate on the end too, but I respect the Mauser action

**dilligaf2u2** · 04-01-2008, 02:29 AM

I just got a WWII rifle from (Big Five sporting goods) It was $90. Shoots 7.62 X 54R. 20 rounds for $10. Shoots well and can take down Elk and Deer.

It is the same rifle the Russians used during WWII with a scope as a sniper rifle.

Don

**MCBushbaby** · 04-02-2008, 11:53 AM

Eugh! Selecting a rifle is so hard. I have the option of a Moisen Nagent in good condition, a Lee Enfield No.1Mk.3 but the stock is wrapped in copper wire and it looks like it's split, a Mauser K98, or a new Mossberg AK100 combo package.

The Moisen Nagent is great. I'm guessing 6.5lb, stock 1940's iron sights, magazine and bolt assembly in good condition as is the wooden stock. Decent price too - $150. Problem is it'll take some major renovation to attach a scope (drilling holes, bending the bolt) and the ammo is few and far between, not to mention expensive.

The $150 Enfield would be great but I'd definitely need to replace the stock, so add another $70. Likewise with scope brackets and scope I'd toss another $100 at it. Plus if the stock is in such bad condition, who knows if the barrel is bent or the trigger assembly has been damaged.

The Kar98 is my dream but it's heavier than the other three models and more expensive (damn popularity...) at $399.

The above three vintage models are sold As-Is from Dunham's Sports in my area. The only thing I can bet on is they are safe to fire (can't resell unsafe rifles). I could probably assume the action is in decent shape since it's a bolt action and made for battlefield abuse.

The other rifle that caught my eye yesterday was a Mossberg ATR100 Bolt Action 30-06 combo package complete with 3-9x40 scope. It's a black synthetic stock, about 7lbs, scope, bolt action, and uses the most easily-accessible ammo in the US (aside from .22). Costing $350, it actually fits on-par with the vintage models once I replace their stocks and attach a scope. This rifle is apparently new (as in a new model from mossberg, not just new itself) but it might be sold under the Charter 2000 Field King name as well. If so, it gets a 1" spread at 100yards using a cheap 3-9 scope.

**Rick** · 04-02-2008, 12:37 PM

Mitch - If you must have a scope and you like the Enfield, look at the No. 4 MKIT Sniper. It's already factory drilled for scope.

I'm going to a couple of gun shows in two weeks to scout out an Enfield. I found one yesterday, it's the US Issue but he wants $299 for it. It's complete with bayonet. If I run out of ammo I can just scare the he** out of whatever I'm after.