What Happened to [Wilderness] Survival?

[Alpine_Sapper]

The mob in the city is wilderness.
The problem here is in our definitions of what constitutes wilderness survival.
You can separate city and wilderness intellectually, but the processes to survive both environments are the same.

While you cut wood to heat your home, i do something to heat my home too. Both skills might differ, but the end result and the process remains the same...we both spend energy, in order to gain energy...the amount of energy spent in rapport to the amount you gain is pure economics. The environment in which this happens is a matter of the mind.
You think (the mind) that "nature" is defined by certain aspects...like solitude, vegetation, little population density and so on...but all of those things do not pertain to energy and therefore survival, for survival is not of two distinct worlds...there is only one survival world...if this forum was called "wilderness", or "wilderness living", or anything without the word "survival", it would be a different sphere...but as soon as the word "survival" enters the equation, it opens the door for this one big world...this one big mood.

Your interest might be "wilderness", and without the word "survival" i agree that the mood pertaining to this title would be of a different sphere...but once again, the word survival is here introduced in order to specify the corresponding mood.
To survive wilderness is to understand how wilderness works.
We enter here the realm of biology, physiology, psychology, economics, mechanics, forces, behavior, and anything describing life as a whole.
Wilderness, in my book, does not stop at the metal sign saying "you are now entering the city of ...".
There are more wild animals where i live than you will ever encounter where you live.
Those animals are not governed by "non-wilderness" forces...for wilderness is under the law of life, and the only rule is to survive.

Some think that city dwellers are prisoners...as if wilderness dwellers were free ?
Chains are not a visual happening...chains are in our minds.
Happiness is a state of mind.
Freedom, is a state of mind...wilderness has no borders.
While i walk on hollywood Blvd. i call it wilderness.
The forces at play are the same here as when i walk through joshua tree.
It is not the environment that is at play, it is our response to this environment.
Our mood while facing life.
And splitting life into categories is at best an attempt of the mind to situate and process forces at play...but those forces are a personal affair.
It is the world touching you or you touching the world.

The difference between "wilderness" and "non-wilderness" is an idea...a metal sign...a mental sign.

Agreed. Wilderness is anything outside my home where the wild aminals roam. Whether they be four legged or two, fuzzy or decked out in fubu and ecko.

I was given a piece of the barb wire fence that runs through the DMZ, framed with a serial number as a Christmas present by my unit in Korea. It will always hang over the inside frame of my front door to remind me of the reality of crossing that threshold.

[trax]

I reckon I've weighed in enough times so that folks already know my opinion. Wilderness survival is what I came here to learn, talk, and share what I know about. My opinion of the economic threads is basically...it all seems to be guess work and what the economy will do will fall somewhere between the two trains of thought, seems it usually does. What I have a concern with is...what a bunch of friggin' crybabies. Every time someone says something that someone else doesn't like it's time to jump up and kick sand at them and take your toys and run away crying? OK. See ya.

My hat's off to a certain gentleman who goes by the name Remy, three comebacks people, count 'em, three.

Now, I'm not terribly interested in buying metal or whatever, so I'm just going to go right ahead, scan what's said and not contribute to that thread. (Yep, I still look, I might just learn something)Someone else thinks they know all they need to know on snaring rabbits or building shelters in the bush or whatever, don't read the thread! Yowza what a concept.

Now then, I'm also of the opinion that if people want to learn more about "wilderness" survival as in the great outdoors, most of us have to take a look at our relationship with the earth and how we see ourselves in a natural environment. Most people don't. That, from what I've seen, includes most people here and I don't see that changing anytime soon or being changed by anything I'm going to say to them so I don't. People want to yack on about shtf scenarios and how they plan to defend themselves from other people more than anything it seems. Good luck. If it happens, it won't be what matters. We all have to exploit our environments to stay alive, whatever that environment is, but the question is....to what degree? Are you living to survive or basing your "survival" on good old greed? In another posting I stated that I'd rather have a "survival" knife than a gold brick in a shtf scenario. Someone asked what if I wanted to buy a boat? Hellooooo. And lucky me! I own knives, I'm coming up pretty short in the gold department (have some old broken neck chains that I could get melted together I suppose, might add up to a gram, don't care)

Anyway, if people want to leave or go away and pout, good luck to them, my only concern about all the economic posts is for newcomers looking for a wilderness based forum

[BraggSurvivor]

trax, i dont think it has anything to do with "go away and pout". A person can only take so much. Everytime you turn around someone is jabbing you in the ribs, behind your back. (and not in a kidding way) hopeak and beerrunner are awsome guys with lifetimes of valuable information and it has been beatin away due to their views. hopeak has over thirty years in the bush....he has forgotten more than most of us (i will use "us") Conelickers "think" we know. A huge huge loss.

For me, I dont give a flying crap what some say about what I post. Economics is basic survival to me, and I havent lived in a city for over twenty years. Most people watch Dr.Phil and Opra before they will find out how the worlds economy is doing.

Oh,(this one really steams me) and forget about working hard when you were young, build a sucessful businness, put some wealth way and be debt free. You dont want to do that around here.

Every person has the ability to be economically successful. There are hundreds, if not thousands or even millions, of rags-to-riches stories. One of my favorites is Andrew Carnegie.

Reading books when I was 13 about how to become a self made millionaire when my friends were reading Archie comic books. What I saw was that of all of them, only one worked for someone else. Anyone who works for someone else is making their employer rich.

If you are in your 30s or 40s or 50s, in debt with no saving and looking for a 'job' working for someone else, well, you made some wrong decisions earlier in life. It's not my fault!


And to those who have PM,d me to stop posting about Doom & Gloom.........<scratching head and looking for the middle finger smilie>.........

[Rick]

Well now, that confused me. Take so much of what? How is anyone being jabbed in the ribs? No one asked Hopeak or Beerrunner to leave. Quite the opposite. If they leave, it's a decision they made on their own.

There are a number of you economy is in the toilet pundants that keep telling me I'm wrong. That's okay by me. I don't get mad. I don't care if you don't get it (he said tongue in cheek). You guys have every right to your opinion. I appreciate your position, enjoy discussing and cussing it. Each of you have made some solid points and each of you have made to bad ones (in my view). I'll bet I've done the same.

How does someone saying the world is roses and sugar plums stabbing in the back and someone saying the world is vinegar and sour grapes okay? It's nothing more than a different opinion. If some think they are out to save everyone by telling them TS will hit the fan, then sorry. There's no hero there. No more than someone saying it's just a cycle. It's still only opinion. If that makes anyone mad enough to leave then the skin was thin on the fruit to begin with and too easily bruised. What would they do if they encountered a real problem. This is, afterall, a forum. An electronic way to talk to one another. How that can get knickers in a twist is beyond me. Save it for when there is REALLY something to worry about like when the Colts lose.

[BraggSurvivor]

Teeter Totter, Bread and butter, Wash your face in muddy water.......

Ive never said you were wrong Rick, just dillusional. j/k

I enjoy your replys and way of thinking. Its refreshing. Like roses and sugar plums.

[trax]

trax, i dont think it has anything to do with "go away and pout". A person can only take so much.
And to those who have PM,d me to stop posting about Doom & Gloom.........<scratching head and looking for the middle finger smilie>.........

I agree that people should stop Pm-ing you, post what you want. But see....a long time ago when we did talk about wilderness survival here, I recall a thread about getting a fire started in a snowstorm. You may have seen it, maybe not, doesn't matter. Here's my point, there was a lot of what I thought was bs in the thread and I told people what I knew from my experience. It's tough to get a fire started in a snowstorm, well duuuh. So....if someone's stuck in a situation like that are they going to stare up into the snow and say...a person can only take so much? Well boo-hoo,it ain't gonna get the fire burning, punkin. I agree, too, that those guys have a lot of stuff to share and they can share whatever they want in whatever thread they want. Nobody believes in freedom of expression more than I, you can take that to the bank. (Or you can sew it into your mattress if the banks collapse) But it seems to me that way too often people get all pissy about a bit of bickering and they're pulling up stakes and running off. Then we get two pages of people whining "don't go" or apologizing for what they said, apologizing doesn't un-say something. Doesn't really sound like that tough, pioneer/survivor spirit that keeps people facing down bears or rassling wolverines or whatever the f***, y'know? I'm just saying bon voyage, their choice.

[BraggSurvivor]

I know what your saying trax, probably right. I was just sticking up for my likeminded buds is all.

I was not speaking for them, but I could just see someone thinking "is it really worth all this" or "this isnt the only survival site on the net".

(Ive thought it myself)

But, to balance out Rick, Ive decided it is now my mission to stick around.

[Rick]

Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.

[crashdive123]

Yeah. Figure the odds.

[nell67]

Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.

Rick,I would argue with you,but since I am female,I would have an unfair advantage

[trax]

Hot dog!!! No one else will argue with me.

No one else could be bothered.

[Rick]

(looking up insults in dictionary).....

[trax]

(looking up insults in dictionary).....

uh-oh, expecting some sand kicking to start, there goes the shiny red plastic pail and shovel out of the playground. Maybe I should apologize to Ri....nah, never mind

[wildWoman]

The mob in the city is wilderness.
The problem here is in our definitions of what constitutes wilderness survival.
You can separate city and wilderness intellectually, but the processes to survive both environments are the same.

While you cut wood to heat your home, i do something to heat my home too. Both skills might differ, but the end result and the process remains the same...we both spend energy, in order to gain energy...the amount of energy spent in rapport to the amount you gain is pure economics. The environment in which this happens is a matter of the mind.
You think (the mind) that "nature" is defined by certain aspects...like solitude, vegetation, little population density and so on...but all of those things do not pertain to energy and therefore survival, for survival is not of two distinct worlds...there is only one survival world...if this forum was called "wilderness", or "wilderness living", or anything without the word "survival", it would be a different sphere...but as soon as the word "survival" enters the equation, it opens the door for this one big world...this one big mood.

Your interest might be "wilderness", and without the word "survival" i agree that the mood pertaining to this title would be of a different sphere...but once again, the word survival is here introduced in order to specify the corresponding mood.
To survive wilderness is to understand how wilderness works.
We enter here the realm of biology, physiology, psychology, economics, mechanics, forces, behavior, and anything describing life as a whole.
Wilderness, in my book, does not stop at the metal sign saying "you are now entering the city of ...".
There are more wild animals where i live than you will ever encounter where you live.
Those animals are not governed by "non-wilderness" forces...for wilderness is under the law of life, and the only rule is to survive.

Some think that city dwellers are prisoners...as if wilderness dwellers were free ?
Chains are not a visual happening...chains are in our minds.
Happiness is a state of mind.
Freedom, is a state of mind...wilderness has no borders.
While i walk on hollywood Blvd. i call it wilderness.
The forces at play are the same here as when i walk through joshua tree.
It is not the environment that is at play, it is our response to this environment.
Our mood while facing life.
And splitting life into categories is at best an attempt of the mind to situate and process forces at play...but those forces are a personal affair.
It is the world touching you or you touching the world.

The difference between "wilderness" and "non-wilderness" is an idea...a metal sign...a mental sign.

Sure people have different definitions for terms. However in the 19 years I lived in a large city, nobody I knew ever meant they were going downtown when mentioning the term wilderness.
As far as practical skills go, this forum still seems to be more geared at wilderness in terms of trees, animals, few people, rather than subways, Walmart and Starbucks. I'm not sure how pontificating on what fear is for my mind and how it expresses itself in my brainwaves would be helpful in either capsizing with my kayak or in getting mugged in New York City. Both causes fear but what I need in both instances is the skills to turn that situation around.
Anyway...your posts always befuddle my more moose-oriented mind don't want to get all hormonal here again as happened among members last week or whenever everybody was throwing fits...

[BraggSurvivor]

Damn it remy, that's EXACTLY what I was gonna say!



Great post....again, made my nipples hard.

[MCBushbaby]

You have to admit with that perception of survival, Remy, the forums could spread so far from survival related to the wilderness that it'll become unrecognizable. Let's say someone starts a thread on "eluding enemy capture in the bush", then someone responds with a thread "cover-your-trail: camo and ghillie suits" which in turn turns produces "lightweight flak vests". Eventually someone will take the opposite approach and play the hunter with "IR vs heat vision goggles" or "hollow point or slug, antipersonnel". Then Billy Johnson will google "wilderness survival" and think he's going to learn Eagle Scout-type skills only to find threads on how a ceramic flak vest is better at stopping a .308. Of course you can argue all the threads relate to survival, but how far off topic is too far?

Wilderness survival is not making candles out of pre-made wax or paper flutes with a comb...survival is hard work, and rests on a life or death stimuli. What if the SHTF where you are at...and your spouse becomes in need of medical assistance ? You will go to that city, you will think about economics to acquire what you need...you will need skills far beyond paddling...desperation, life or death needs...that is survival...and survival has no borders determined by what you call wilderness or not.

Well then this forum might as well be called "world survival" if you're going to group everything into an all-encompassing discussion. Heck, why stop at the economy? Let's talk about survival on the moon! Because, alluding to your anecdote, what happens if TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI and we need to come out of the bush and hop a shuttle to a lunar homestead? Will gold be the currency of choice on the moon? How about buying up air and water since those are going to be the precious commodities. Should I start making moon threads? I mean, yes it's highly unlikely we'll be shipped off to the moon anytime soon but how much more plausible is it that the economy will crash and the world will go into fan-sh1t scenario?

[beerrunner13]

Well I did not mean to stir up such a big to do. I got a couple PMs and even a phone call last night telling me I should rethink not posting here any more.

I did not take my toys and go away I got tired of hearing people complain and ***** about posts they did not like, not becuse of content but becuse of subject. DUHH don't read them if people think the the economy dosen't affect thier survival they are in denial. That and some of the attitudes here, such as if some one has not been here as long as them they have no right to an opinion if it dose not match thiers. It seems if one is not in Canaada, the western Mountains or up north it is assumed that they know nothing about survival according to some folks here.

As gvan, Catfish and a few others can tell you spend a little time in a swamp down here and you will find it is not a day at the beach. I have spent nearly 30 years working with the man who holds the second gator trapping permit in the state of Fl and another man who removes feral hogs and dose a lot of live trapping and cutting on boars. I have lived in a cabin off grid in Western Maine and spent a lot of time in the Montana and Wy wilderness so I know a few things. Not looking to get into a urination contest but some of the condsending comments I have recieved left a bad taste in my mouth.

I have learned a lot from both Bragg and Rick in regard to finaces, currently I am trying to get our debts paid of and my wife and I are stocking up on needed materials and knowlage as well as working with some real estate people and checking out land, as we are planing on setting up our own self sefficent homestead. In all likely hood it will be in Montana as I think I have found the property I want. But I have much to learn in the meantime and it's not all how to start a fire or what the best knife is.

In closeing I stand by everything I said before, but I see this forum as a great resourse and plan on continueing to use it. And if I get on someones nerves oh well you are probobly on mine already

[crashdive123]

Glad your hanging around.

[BraggSurvivor]

You have to admit with that perception of survival, Remy, the forums could spread so far from survival related to the wilderness that it'll become unrecognizable. Let's say someone starts a thread on "eluding enemy capture in the bush", then someone responds with a thread "cover-your-trail: camo and ghillie suits" which in turn turns produces "lightweight flak vests". Eventually someone will take the opposite approach and play the hunter with "IR vs heat vision goggles" or "hollow point or slug, antipersonnel". Then Billy Johnson will google "wilderness survival" and think he's going to learn Eagle Scout-type skills only to find threads on how a ceramic flak vest is better at stopping a .308. Of course you can argue all the threads relate to survival, but how far off topic is too far?



Well then this forum might as well be called "world survival" if you're going to group everything into an all-encompassing discussion. Heck, why stop at the economy? Let's talk about survival on the moon! Because, alluding to your anecdote, what happens if TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI and we need to come out of the bush and hop a shuttle to a lunar homestead? Will gold be the currency of choice on the moon? How about buying up air and water since those are going to be the precious commodities. Should I start making moon threads? I mean, yes it's highly unlikely we'll be shipped off to the moon anytime soon but how much more plausible is it that the economy will crash and the world will go into fan-sh1t scenario?

Hmm,....... the moon you say......There has to be a conspiracy theory or SHTF moon scenerio out there somewhere.........thanks for the ideas mitch!

[BraggSurvivor]

Hey beerrunner, you know the Montana border is only 2 1/2 hours away from me. Meet up for a beer when you get set up.

Glad to have you back bro!