To those who want to chuck it all...

**Sarge47** · 06-17-2012, 05:53 PM

Every once in a while we get people on here who decide to go off into the woods and leave society behind; some want to leave it only for a while, and others never want to come back. 1st off, just let me say that I respect whatever decision is made by those that want to leave for a longer duration, but most often do not agree with it, as is my right. Sometime back I posted a "comparison" of two such individuals on my blog who had followed their dream to Alaska; one did it right, and lived, one did not, and died very young. Here's the reprint of that blog post, and my personal viewpoint behind it:

Proenneke vs. McCandless, an observation. Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

2 Comments

With all the "Bear vs. Les" stuff we had on the site I couldn't help noticing the stories of these two men who followed their dream to live in the wilds of the Alaskan Wilderness. Both Chris McCandless (CM) & Dick Proenneke (DP) set out to actually live their dream, only one made it. The following are my observations and opinions only based on what I've seen & read.

1st, DP, was a realist while CM was a romantic dreamer. DP faced the actual reality of what he was going to be going up against while CM was trying to live out some "Jack London" fantasy. Here's what I've put together regarding the actions & preparations of both men:

D.P.: Learned 1st hand about the environment and took the proper precautions, gaining both the knowledge & experience required to survive the harsh Alaskan weather and lack of game. He carried a high-powered rifle, knew how to skin, clean, & preserve wild game, was a "journeyman" builder, put out the money for all the things he couldn't find in the wild as well as having a bush pilot check up on him every once in a while; & was living in a location known to others, so he could be looked in on to see if he was OK. He had also prepared earlier on by living with other more experienced Alaskans from which he learned the nessasary info needed.

C.M.: Took only a minimum of supplies, trusting into only what he could carry on his back to try to get him through the harsh winter. His finding of the bus as a shelter was just "dumb-luck" that saved him from a, potential earlier demise. His burning of his money showed his foolishness as he could have used it, plus any other cash he could have earned to have properly prepared himself the way DP did as DP had set off to do his thing in the 60s while CM was doing his in the 90s. Also CM counted on knowledge gained only through the knowledge of others that he either wrote down or had in a book on edible plants, but had never taken any actual "hands-on" training. Training that could have saved his life as he well may have know that the plant he had eaten was poisonous from the get-go, there by saving him from a very miserable, early demise. The fact that he had created a 2nd Identity: Alexander Supertramp; and that he was running away from a dysfunctional family situation as well as his "disobedience" to the law in his Kayaking expedition down the river says to me that he was over-confident, and under-prepared. Furthermore he refused to listen to wiser heads about his ultimate destination.

The bottom line is this: One was "prepared", the other wasn't. A side note, those who do not learn from past mistakes are destined to repeat them.

**doug1980** · 06-17-2012, 06:01 PM

Very good post Sarge.

**Warheit** · 06-17-2012, 06:04 PM

This is a great comparison. Thanks for sharing. However, the wild sweat peas didn't kill Chris -- starvation did. Either way, this is a good illustration of what can happen when you aren't prepared. Kudos for bringing this up! Good post!

**Sarge47** · 06-17-2012, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Warheit

This is a great comparison. Thanks for sharing. However, the wild sweat peas didn't kill Chris -- starvation did. Either way, this is a good illustration of what can happen when you aren't prepared. Kudos for bringing this up! Good post!

Correction noted, thanks. When I originally wrote this it'd been awhile since I'd read the book and was writing from a faulty memory.

**mountainmark** · 06-17-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge47

Correction noted, thanks. When I originally wrote this it'd been awhile since I'd read the book and was writing from a faulty memory.

Well, Into The Wild blamed the (potato seeds?) But Samuel Thayer puts up a much better argument for starvation.

Very good post Sarge

**Thaddius Bickerton** · 06-17-2012, 09:10 PM

For all those ol' boys that wanna go chuck it all and live in the wilderness, Short term, well prepared it is fun

Long term, well prepared it would be hard for most, esp being alone.

Those who are burnt out on stuff need to get a few things in their thinking:

1. Wherever you go, you take your baggage with you. Handle it where it is easiest to handle, not under duress.

2. A simple lifestyle can be built one step at a time, without trying to do the equivalent of a heroin addict going cold turkey.

3. Knowledge and tools are how man makes his way in the world. Making all you need for yourself is pretty near impossible, thus early man moved in "tribes". Loners depend upon taking it with them / resupply from time to time.

4. When man figured out how to farm / domesticate animals, he pretty much gave up hunter gather for farmer /herdsman, even if nomadic.

5. It is lots easier to slip into the reverse in the similar order. Downsize to a small farm and job, and learn to provide for yourself on your small farm, slowly moving to needing the job less and less. Perhaps a small business to replace the job, even a farm stand or sell some of your produce to resturants etc.

6. Include foraging / hunting / fishing / preserving for the next season into your lifestyle.

7. if you haven't simplified enough then you can start to depend more and more on foraged / hunted / fished / preserving etc until you are happy.

8. If you learn that you can survive as a hunter gather and choose that then slipping back into that from a subsistence / foraging farm would be lots simpler than from a heavy society modern lifestyle to hunter gatherer.

It seems that while many would be happy being simple subsistence farmers / low wage earners living a simplified back to the land lifestyle, not many will ever choose to attempt to live as hunter gatherers, esp. once they learn that their really just isn't that much to hunter gather in most places.

Id suggest to understand one self and reasons first, then learn and plan and move towards your dreams incrementally.

JMTC< YMMV

This was not a detailed plan, just pointing out the slow path vs the jumping into deep water and hoping you can learn to swim before you drown approach.

Thad.

**finallyME** · 06-19-2012, 11:55 AM

Twice I ate a Big Mac from Micky D's and chucked it all.......8 times in a row. Not a pretty sight. I only eat the salad there now.

**Celticwarrior** · 06-19-2012, 05:58 PM

The biggest difference between Dick Proenneke and Chris McCandless is that Dick had a lifetime of experience to draw on, including years of coming up to Alaska and preparing the area with supplies LONG before he ever 'chucked' it to go live up there. He had a friend who let him live in his unused cabin while he built his own, and even gave him his old wood burning stove; he had already split firewood and laid out cut and stripped logs for building his cabin the year before so they were dry and ready to use; he had regular contact with the bush pilot that took him back down to Anchorage to return to the lower 48 when he needed to (he needed a couple of operations, got deathly ill once, and had to return to the states for some family obligations at various points) and who brought him mail and supplies that he had ordered, like windows, concrete, and fuel cans among other items. He knew how to do construction and to fabricate items from scratch using existing materials (a bowl and spoon from a tree burl; door hinges from an empty can; various tools from existing metal and wood parts; etc.). He understood Alaska and its weather, the animal life, the loneliness, and accepted it as something he really could deal with. McCandless had none of these traits. He was a spoiled rich kid, who had no life experience other than hitchhiking across the U.S., and who had no trade skills or abilities to work with when it came to building things or adapting them from existing items. He never told anyone where he was going, what he was doing, never had a plan or any backup in case things went wrong. He made friends who would have gladly helped him, but left them behind when he entered Alaska, and wouldn't have accepted their help even if they had known what he was up to. He was stubbornly determined to make it on his own or die trying. Sadly, it turned out to be the latter. From what I have read in the books about and from each, the other difference was 'Pride'. Dick was a humble guy, who did what he did in a workaday, practical manner, and was surprisingly free of boasting or bragging about his accomplishments. Chris was a whiny kid who was constantly looking for someone to be proud of him in a way his own parents never were, and he died trying to get someone to notice how brave or noble or independant he was. Pretty sad, really.

**Sarge47** · 06-19-2012, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Celticwarrior

The biggest difference between Dick Proenneke and Chris McCandless is that Dick had a lifetime of experience to draw on, including years of coming up to Alaska and preparing the area with supplies LONG before he ever 'chucked' it to go live up there. He had a friend who let him live in his unused cabin while he built his own, and even gave him his old wood burning stove; he had already split firewood and laid out cut and stripped logs for building his cabin the year before so they were dry and ready to use; he had regular contact with the bush pilot that took him back down to Anchorage to return to the lower 48 when he needed to (he needed a couple of operations, got deathly ill once, and had to return to the states for some family obligations at various points) and who brought him mail and supplies that he had ordered, like windows, concrete, and fuel cans among other items. He knew how to do construction and to fabricate items from scratch using existing materials (a bowl and spoon from a tree burl; door hinges from an empty can; various tools from existing metal and wood parts; etc.). He understood Alaska and its weather, the animal life, the loneliness, and accepted it as something he really could deal with. McCandless had none of these traits. He was a spoiled rich kid, who had no life experience other than hitchhiking across the U.S., and who had no trade skills or abilities to work with when it came to building things or adapting them from existing items. He never told anyone where he was going, what he was doing, never had a plan or any backup in case things went wrong. He made friends who would have gladly helped him, but left them behind when he entered Alaska, and wouldn't have accepted their help even if they had known what he was up to. He was stubbornly determined to make it on his own or die trying. Sadly, it turned out to be the latter. From what I have read in the books about and from each, the other difference was 'Pride'. Dick was a humble guy, who did what he did in a workaday, practical manner, and was surprisingly free of boasting or bragging about his accomplishments. Chris was a whiny kid who was constantly looking for someone to be proud of him in a way his own parents never were, and he died trying to get someone to notice how brave or noble or independant he was. Pretty sad, really.

You nailed it, CW! Positive Rep coming your way!