File or Steel?

**Buckman95** · 05-12-2012, 06:37 PM

I'm 17 and I want to make my first knife.My dad will be assisting me,but I need to know if you have to heat a file with a forge or if you can grind the shape.Also is a file better for making a knife than a steel bar blank? I am trying to decide whether to buy a nicholson file or a damascus steel bar.The file is 14'' long and 1 1/2'' wide and about 20$. The steel bar is 12'' long an 2'' wide and costs 30$ through the mail.

**crashdive123** · 05-12-2012, 07:04 PM

For your first knife I would not use either. A file is good to use though. Find a smaller one, preferably made in the USA. Making a big knife for your first one will make a difficult task even more difficult. Chances are that it will be made of 1095 steel. Check yard sales or flea markets - you should be able to find one for about $1 or less.

As to treating the knife first......It depends on what equipment you have available to make the knife. If you provide a list of tools you plan on using we can give you a better recommendation. Tools for shaping, grinding, drilling (do you have carbide bits)....that sort of thing.

**Buckman95** · 05-12-2012, 08:37 PM

I would be using my dad's tools which would basically be a drill press and a bench grinder so not much.

**crashdive123** · 05-12-2012, 09:26 PM

You may need to anneal it in order to drill holes unless you have carbide bits. If you don't have a way to heat treat, then you do not want to anneal it. You can make a knife with a small bench grinder - just remove the parts that don't look like a knife. If you need any help along the way feel free to ask.

**Buckman95** · 05-12-2012, 09:29 PM

Ok thanks.

**Skinner** · 05-13-2012, 12:13 AM

I Started With Lawn Mower Blades But I Had to Aneal them and I Drew Out the Pattern I Wanted and Cut it Away with a Angle Grinder ,Profiled and Got the Blade to Were I Wanted it Drilled Holes and Heat treated In My Home Make Forge (old Grill With pipe attached to it for the Hair Dryer for Forced Air ) Heat treat to cherry red and Non-Magnetic And Quench in Motor Oil .And Clean up and Put Edge On it and Handles and You Have a Knife.
If you Need Help Just Ask Were Here to Help

**Erwin Roach** · 05-13-2012, 10:28 AM

Buckman95 what Skinner and crash tell you do hold true. In the late 90's when I first descided to make knives, not knowing anything about heat treating or metalurgy. I used files that I fasioned with a 4" angle grinder. I noticed that the edges would chip easily and they would break! Files are usually at full quinch/hardness for the steel they are made of and are usually in the mid to high 60's on the Rc scale thus making them able to cut other metals but not very forgiving to stress, tempering solves this problem. By tempering a steel you lower the hardness but it allows more felxabilaty to the steel. Most all steels have a different optimal temper point. Be careful of damascus bars. I make my own damascus steel occasionally and I use a combination of steels that have very similar heat treat qualities. In the forging process there is a carbon transfer process between metals but it is limited. If I may suggest, if your gonna spend $30. on a steel, a great steel is O1 tool steel or 1095. either is very easy to work and heat treat, not very expensive and most knifemaking suppliers sell it.
just my 2c
Erwin
e3

**Buckman95** · 05-13-2012, 10:37 AM

Thanks guys.

**COWBOYSURVIVAL** · 05-13-2012, 11:11 AM

Annealing can be done by simply tossing inside of a hardwood fire. Add logs on top, let burn down overnight remove steel when the fire is completely burnt out.
Heating to harden can be acheived by using a hardwood or charcoal fire and forced air beneath the fire. A hair dryer works well for this, so does an old brake drum. Use a magnet, when it begins to glow a soft red start checking it to see if it is not magnetic. When it is not magnetic quickly quench it in burnt motor oil, cooking oil, or mineral spirits. Careful though you are close to melting the knife when it becomes non-magnetic. Then temper in Mom's oven twice at 400 degrees F for an hour. This recipe is simple and many of us adjust quenches, temper times to fit the specific application of the knife, hardness, toughness, etc. This will work with the file, 1095, 1090, 1080, 5160....Good luck.

**Buckman95** · 05-13-2012, 11:12 AM

Will be in search of files,blades,etc.If I have any more questions I'll post them. Thank you guys for the helpful information.

**p moore** · 05-16-2012, 02:59 PM

Okay, Here is my suggestion. Buy a bar of steel. What ever thickness and length you are trying to make. Get your knife profiled, ground, and holes drilled. If you send it to me, I will HT and temper it for you, and send it back ready to finish. Just cover the shipping, and I will take care of it.

Always try to help out the next maker as you move along.

Paul

**crashdive123** · 05-16-2012, 03:01 PM

Nice offer Paul.

Buckman95 Paul is a very accomplished knife maker. You won't find a better offer than the one he made.

**Buckman95** · 05-16-2012, 04:16 PM

Me and my dad want to make the first knife on our own.Thanks for the offer Paul maybe I can do that sometime in the future.I haven't found any files or blades yet,but we will be going to a monthly flea market in about two weeks.Maybe better luck there.Anybody recommend buying a new file just to make a knife if it's cheaper? And will a file be just as good if you just grind it out instead of heating it?

**Erwin Roach** · 05-16-2012, 09:29 PM

Paul I did'nt know you were here Bro. As soon as I figure out the basic format of this forum I'll answer your Pm

Buck95 he makes a great offer and I or any maker should do the same . But if you wanta' play with steels and expect a Basic result you need to explore the aspects of metalurgy somewhat.http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html
You grind a file , go beyond the color blue ,, too soft. If you contain blue, bronz, straw you ain't gonna drill it without carbides.
The questions you ask , I've been there done that twelve years ago.

**Skinner** · 05-17-2012, 12:50 AM

I Have Some Files Anneled And Ready for Working And Also Have Some High Carbon Pry Bars Also I Just Anneled Also Still Have to Cut to Bars But If you Need Some to Start On Drop Me a PM and Send Me a Address And you'll Be Set for Some Files for your Next Few Knives. I Hit the Flea Market Every Other Weekend And I'll Be Going this Week Comming So No Big Deal To Part With Some if you Want them .

**finallyME** · 05-18-2012, 01:07 PM

Don't forget to look at pawn shops and thrift stores for files. You'd be surprised. I found a pawn shop (local) that has a bin of them for $1.50 each.

**Winter** · 05-18-2012, 11:14 PM

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...28pic-heavy%29

That knife is still in my kitchen as a utility knife. My son stabs holes in dog food cans to release it from the can and it shows no damage and is a wonderful brown color now; like grandmas old hickorys.