Flintlocks

**Mischief** · 12-24-2011, 06:52 PM

Heck yes ,My favorite is a .62 smoothbore.The others are for collecting dust.

**aflineman** · 01-01-2012, 04:17 PM

This thing is pretty darn nice for ringing in the New Year. Had the Turkeys rosting in the trees making all sorts of noise.

**Sparky93** · 01-01-2012, 04:55 PM

Are there any flint locks that aren't terribly expensive? I looked at some a while back and most were over $1000! Can you shoot shot for fowl and small game out of a rifled barrel, I have always presumed the answer to be no, but I have never known for sure.

**TresMon** · 01-01-2012, 05:07 PM

You can shoot shot out of riflings- but it's a scattergun indeed. "Pattern" if you can call it that spreads fast.

Cool thread. Even going older school- I have always wanted to take a deer with a match lock.

**kyratshooter** · 01-01-2012, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sparky93

Are there any flint locks that aren't terribly expensive? I looked at some a while back and most were over $1000! Can you shoot shot for fowl and small game out of a rifled barrel, I have always presumed the answer to be no, but I have never known for sure.

The cheapest way to go is buy a traditional sidelock ML of the CVA or Traditions brand that had a drum and nipple that screws in the side and buy a replacement flint lock for it. Just remember that you can buy a lot of caps for the cost of a new lock. Caps run $22/1000 and it would take 100 pounds of powder to use that many up. That is a lot of shooting with a ML.

I have one gun that I bored and reamed smooth by hand. It just takes some time and knowledge. You might even have access to the needed equipment at the university "hobby shop" or in the engineering department.

Just remember that the gunsmiths that made the origionals did every step by hand with some very primitive tools and made some great works of art.

As far as shooting shot from the rifled ML barrel. all modern shooters will say NO! but you are not dealing with a modern gun. The ML has a slower twist to start with. Where a modern pistol or rifle might have a twist of 1/9 your ML will have a twist of 1/48. Mine have even slower twist for use with patched round balls and they go 1/66-1/70. That means when you look down the ML barrel the rifling is almost straight. You are not even getting a full turn in a 28" barrel!

If you use the paper cartridges already noted here you will have very little damage either to the rifling or to the pattern of the shot.

**Sparky93** · 01-01-2012, 09:13 PM

So could I shoot shot out of my TC hawkens .50, and can you get paper .50 cartridges?

**aflineman** · 01-06-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sparky93

So could I shoot shot out of my TC hawkens .50, and can you get paper .50 cartridges?

You can make paper "cartridges". Here is how one person tackled it:
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com...shotcartridges

I have been playing with a (for lack of a better term) a paper shot cup in my new smoothbore, and don't see why it would not work in a rifle. I just pack my shot in a tube made from gluing parchment paper around a 5/8" brass rod (for 20ga). Paper is then cut into tubes and the ends are tied with string or thread. Tie one end, fill with shot, and tie the other. I weigh 65grain (by volume) of shot (this amount shoots well in this smoothbore), and then make my shot cups just a hair over the shot weight (to account for the weight of the paper tube). I have not played with it enough to be sure it is really worth the time in my smooth bore, but the concept should work (at least enough to be an interesting experiment) in a muzzle loading rifle.

**Sparky93** · 01-06-2012, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by aflineman

You can make paper "cartridges". Here is how one person tackled it:
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com...shotcartridges

I have been playing with a (for lack of a better term) a paper shot cup in my new smoothbore, and don't see why it would not work in a rifle. I just pack my shot in a tube made from gluing parchment paper around a 5/8" brass rod (for 20ga). Paper is then cut into tubes and the ends are tied with string or thread. Tie one end, fill with shot, and tie the other. I weigh 65grain (by volume) of shot (this amount shoots well in this smoothbore), and then make my shot cups just a hair over the shot weight (to account for the weight of the paper tube). I have not played with it enough to be sure it is really worth the time in my smooth bore, but the concept should work (at least enough to be an interesting experiment) in a muzzle loading rifle.

Okay, I get it!

**Thaddius Bickerton** · 03-23-2012, 02:46 PM

If they still sell it at the drug store, get a small bottle of saltpeter. take hot tap water and disolve as much as you can in it and then pour the super saturated solution into a small pan and soak your "paper" in it then set the paper out to dry. this makes "nitrated paper" that will burn up. (it is what the paper cartridges for the old percussion cap sharps type rifles are made out of. Be sure to blow down the barrel after each shot to make sure any lingering spark does not touch off the next powder charge and for goodness sakes keep your head off the muzzle when you pour the powder down.

I have been told that cigarette rolling papers are nitrated papers that you can use forming the paper cartridges also. Not sure about that however soaking the papers would be one source of paper to use I suppose.

I have been building / shooting black powder rifles and pistols since 1973 and have developed a lot of different ideas about them, some from research into older writings, and some from experimentation. They are a ton of fun, and fit into my enjoyment of using old time things in my woods loafing.

I have a 50 cal tenn poor boy rifle that is a flintlock, and a repro of a brown bess musket that I have used with shot and ball. The brown bess only has a front blade kind of like a 12 gauge shotgun, and I tend to treat it like a single barrel shotty. Usually I can get a punken ball to hit a paper plate at 50 yards, and I would consider it for hunting with about that range. using shot I can hit out to similar shotgun ranges.

A well tuned and properly loaded flintlock has a short lock time and it isn't a crack boom thing like many believe.

Typical flints are around 1/2 x 1/2 inch up to maybe 1 inch x one inch. I keep a pliers to break a clean edge on mine. I have knapped some, but have a sack of them from dixie gun works that will probably last my lifetime.

I use pure lead to cast my BP ammo, but in a smooth bore I would think that wheel weight lead could be used even though the brinnel hardness will be higher than pure lead. I would probably only use them in a rifled barrel if that was all I had and I HAD to shoot for some reason. Lead is cheap and I have a lot of it out in sons metal shop so have only used wheel weights to cast boolets for my cartridge reloads.

For keeping a firearm firing for generations, simple hand tools and home made powder and ball, I would think that a flintlock was the highest tech most could sustain. Making even one percussion cap along with the mercuric fulminate to put in it would be difficult and the primary explosive that mercuric fulminate is is something that is at best touchy and can really make a mess of you if handled improperly.

That said I recall reading in an old mtn man's journal that when he was asked why he switched to the new fangled percussion over flint when he would be away from resupply he just said he planned to carry a hat full of caps.

A percussion hawkin style loaded with 70 grains of BP and a cast boolet around 400 - 500 grains duplicates the charge of the 50/70 sharps cartridge and will perform similarly just as 70 grains over a 400 grain 45 caliber boolet duplicates the 45/70 bp cartridges. Just food for thought.

I have often thought that a "trade gun" in 72 caliber would be a very versital flintlock / woods loafing rifle.

**Sparky93** · 03-23-2012, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Thaddius Bickerton

If they still sell it at the drug store, get a small bottle of saltpeter. take hot tap water and disolve as much as you can in it and then pour the super saturated solution into a small pan and soak your "paper" in it then set the paper out to dry. this makes "nitrated paper" that will burn up. (it is what the paper cartridges for the old percussion cap sharps type rifles are made out of. Be sure to blow down the barrel after each shot to make sure any lingering spark does not touch off the next powder charge and for goodness sakes keep your head off the muzzle when you pour the powder down.

I have been told that cigarette rolling papers are nitrated papers that you can use forming the paper cartridges also. Not sure about that however soaking the papers would be one source of paper to use I suppose.

I have been building / shooting black powder rifles and pistols since 1973 and have developed a lot of different ideas about them, some from research into older writings, and some from experimentation. They are a ton of fun, and fit into my enjoyment of using old time things in my woods loafing.

I have a 50 cal tenn poor boy rifle that is a flintlock, and a repro of a brown bess musket that I have used with shot and ball. The brown bess only has a front blade kind of like a 12 gauge shotgun, and I tend to treat it like a single barrel shotty. Usually I can get a punken ball to hit a paper plate at 50 yards, and I would consider it for hunting with about that range. using shot I can hit out to similar shotgun ranges.

A well tuned and properly loaded flintlock has a short lock time and it isn't a crack boom thing like many believe.

Typical flints are around 1/2 x 1/2 inch up to maybe 1 inch x one inch. I keep a pliers to break a clean edge on mine. I have knapped some, but have a sack of them from dixie gun works that will probably last my lifetime.

I use pure lead to cast my BP ammo, but in a smooth bore I would think that wheel weight lead could be used even though the brinnel hardness will be higher than pure lead. I would probably only use them in a rifled barrel if that was all I had and I HAD to shoot for some reason. Lead is cheap and I have a lot of it out in sons metal shop so have only used wheel weights to cast boolets for my cartridge reloads.

For keeping a firearm firing for generations, simple hand tools and home made powder and ball, I would think that a flintlock was the highest tech most could sustain. Making even one percussion cap along with the mercuric fulminate to put in it would be difficult and the primary explosive that mercuric fulminate is is something that is at best touchy and can really make a mess of you if handled improperly.

That said I recall reading in an old mtn man's journal that when he was asked why he switched to the new fangled percussion over flint when he would be away from resupply he just said he planned to carry a hat full of caps.

A percussion hawkin style loaded with 70 grains of BP and a cast boolet around 400 - 500 grains duplicates the charge of the 50/70 sharps cartridge and will perform similarly just as 70 grains over a 400 grain 45 caliber boolet duplicates the 45/70 bp cartridges. Just food for thought.

I have often thought that a "trade gun" in 72 caliber would be a very versital flintlock / woods loafing rifle.

Thanks for the info, some rep sent your way!