Fighting in the streets for food....

[Rick]

Sorry, but there's no new news there. Relief agencies have been clamoring for more money for years. We saw exactly the same thing happen in 1973 when grain prices skyrocketed. As prices for food products soar the agencies can buy less with the funds they have available. The result is not only catastrophic but sadly predictable.

[Rick]

To add a bit more to the picture. We experienced a recession in 1982-83. Probably the worst economic cycle the US has experienced since the big one. Unemployment during that time was 10.7 percent, which is the highest since the Great Depression. Over 1.25 million jobs were lost through layoffs and plant shutdowns.

Famine and malnutrition hit places like Tanzania, East Timor, Indonesia, Borneo and New Guinea primarily due to drought but made worse by the lack of relief aid that had dwindled because individuals donated less. Governments still assisted in those efforts.

The other piece that is often not reported is the lack of relief aid because of political or personal restrictions. The failure of governments to distribute or allow the distribution of relief aid because of some political agenda or those individuals that divert the aid so it can be converted to cash. Sold on the black market or at inflated prices to those that need it and can afford it.

The up side is that as grain prices increase it becomes an incentive for grain farmers to increase production. Usually accomplished by taking land out of the farm bank and by leasing additional farm land that had previously been out of production. We are seeing that occurring now. The result is more grain rather than less but sold at a much higher price. Food products actually become more available albeit more expensive. That is followed by a glut of available grain that inevitably drives prices back down. Part of the natural cycle. We saw it 25 years ago as well.

Please don't misconstrue my intent here. I'm not saying there isn't a problem or that it is insignificant. Quite the contrary. I believe it is a huge issue about the suffering and probable death of millions of humans. My point is this is not the first time, nor will it be the last time, we will see this unfortunate situation. And often what compounds the problem is personal greed by individuals in power with no moral compass.

[Canadian-guerilla]

so what do you think about biofuels though - good or bad ?

should the world push the biofuel agenda vs the risk of millions starving ?

[crashdive123]

As an alternative in some areas bio fuels may have some real merit. As a world wide alternative????? I believe they are not the answer.

[Rick]

You can view my thoughts on blended fuels here:

http://safezonellc.com/personalzone4_1.html

Just scroll most of the way down to the heading "Now for E-85 fuels:"

There are other viable alternatives to grain for the use of bio fuels. Cellulosic Ethanol made from wood pulp or switch grass for example. Research into those and similar products or expanding production of electric, hydrogen or diesel would negate the problem of food vs. fuel. in my opinion. As is now stands, we are using MORE gasoline because of bio fuels and I explain that on the link above. Blasted CAFE numbers!

[Beo]

Getting back to the food thing, if you live where food crops won't grow and your starving, move to better soil or you deserve your fate. If you have cows or other livestock walking around you and your starving, eat the cow. And it doesn't take a village to raise a child it takes responsible parents, if you are starving, the people around you are starving and you bring more children into the picture, your an idiot.

[Beo]

Remy you made some good points, but I am not responsible for anyone elses child but mine, that does not mean I want to see any child starve but I don't subscribe to the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" motto, it takes responsible parents, period. So if you are in a country where people are starving is it my responsibility to help take care of them, we have problems here with homelessness and starvation, we need to fix things here before we go around taking care of anyone else. We give billions in aid to other countries and do little right here at home, how much good would all that aid have done if it would've stayed here and used it here. I like the saying "fix your house before you come and fix mine" better.

[GVan]

Who remembers the news broadcasts of Katrina, Andrew, San Francisco Earthquake? These are all desasters at their worst, and the victums' responses all depended upon the core belief system. I don't religion, I mean those pesty little voices in our heads that say, "don't steal," "don't kill," don't lie," and so forth.

We learn them from out parents, friends, school, some from church, reading, and even from life's trials and tribulations. These are what see us through desasters, and the better founded we are the more responsible we'll act. Haven't you watche and listened to the news? Those with fewer moral core beliefs create the greater problems, even without a desaster. The disaster only pushes our beliefs to the limit.

[crashdive123]

Who remembers the news broadcasts of Katrina, Andrew, San Francisco Earthquake? These are all desasters at their worst, and the victums' responses all depended upon the core belief system. I don't religion, I mean those pesty little voices in our heads that say, "don't steal," "don't kill," don't lie," and so forth.

We learn them from out parents, friends, school, some from church, reading, and even from life's trials and tribulations. These are what see us through desasters, and the better founded we are the more responsible we'll act. Haven't you watche and listened to the news? Those with fewer moral core beliefs create the greater problems, even without a desaster. The disaster only pushes our beliefs to the limit.

Very true. It is also true that some refused to be a victim and had the mindset to pre plan, prepare and take action, not unlike what many on these forums do.

[Beo]

Why not.....

Why not what... fix their house first.

Sam, yup been to Somalia, makes no sense to me. And also in the so called Arab countries where everything is hunky dory like Egypt, and Saudi Arabia there is a lot of poverty and starvation you don't hear about. If that is what Islam and being a Muslim is all about then for-get-it buddy I'd rather be an Athiest (well that and the blowing myself up part. Let me or my family be hungry and frig'n cow walk by... sssssssssssssssslice and onto the spit over the fire even in countries like Jamacia where tourism is high and billions are spent every year but poverty plagues the avarage citizen because of a gooberment that does not care and is corrupted, not my problem I say fix America first.

Gvan: Very true. But Crashdive123 is correct also, alot of people lost alot or everything in Katrina (using this as an example) and that is horrible and I feel for them and they need help getting back on their feet, but alot tried to get over and claim things that weren't true to get more money and that is wrong any way you look at it. The gooberment screwed the pooch on Katrina we all know that, and I think we should have done alot more and still need to do more but one also has to help themselves also.
You said: "fewer moral core beliefs create the greater problems, even without a desaster" This does not mean I am to help you if you have fewer moral core beliefs.

[Canadian-guerilla]

we have problems here with homelessness and starvation,
we need to fix things here before we go around taking care of anyone else.

+1

whenever i've been approached by a charity
i ask if the money is going to a Canadian charity or to help Canadians
everyone has seen those commercials for starving kids in Africa
where's the commercials for starving kids in north america ?
and who's helping the homeless veterans in the US ?
the way the gov't is treating returning gulf veterans is disgraceful

[Rick]

Even worse than that, charities often absorb the donations into "administrative costs" so that little is actually donated for the intended relief victims. If you want to know how "productive" your favorite charity is you can check them out here:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde....view&cpid=662

Just type in the name of the charity.

[Beo]

Did you know that the military is now expecting the veteran's that got a bonus for signing up or re-enlisting to pay it back if they are wounded in Iraq and cannot return to duty!!! Purple Heart veteran's are being ordered to pay back a bonus since they cannot complete their contract even though they lost a limb, eye sight, hearing, or are disabled from injuries received in combat... that is disgusting, you re-enlist or enlist to serve your country, say for 4 or 8 years and then get sent to Iraq or Afgahnistan and loose a limb and they want the enlistment bonus money back, makes me sick.

[Rick]

I don't know the status but here is a bill that was introduced to correct that situation.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07296/827606-84.stm

[Beo]

Great post Rick, great info. Here in Cincy we had an Iraqi vet return missing his right leg, after 9months of treatment and still in rehab he was sent a bill by the gooberment saying he had to pay back the bonus money he already got and wasn't getting anymore since he could not fullfill his contract, that is just wrong.

[Alpine_Sapper]

I want to say something but it will come out I am heartless.

The world will come to a balance. It will repair itself. One way is to remove the excesses that are a drain on the limited resources. People could and should be counted as an excess. Mother Nature has a way to balance this excess. It is called starvation.

Can India produce enough food to feed all its people. If not; it is time to remove the excess. How many children on average does an African woman have? Saying I will not have children, till I know I can feed them, might salve some of their problems?

I feel for the children. Not so much; I would see my grand children starve rather then them. It is time some of these hands out people took responsibility for their lot in life and the price for their choices in life. No one comes into this world with a tag on their toe saying they have a right to this or that. The choice to have children can not and should not be a matter of, you are here so you have the right to be taken care of.

Riots over food! Here are some examples of people blaming a government for choices they have made. I was in my early 30's before I had a child. I had an education and a way to care for him. I did not have 14 children and expect someone else to give me hand outs to care for them. I wonder how many of the rioters went to their mothers and fathers and said "why did you have a or several children if you could not care for them"?

I know some religions say "go forth and multiply" but I bet not one says go forth and be stupid, for someone will come and take care of you.

Don

Amen. Preach on brother. Seriously, very valid point.

[Rick]

There is certainly some validity to what you said but there are other factors, not within the control of families, that just as often influence their ability to gather food. Drought being one example and ethnic atrocities being another. Both have created vast numbers of refugees that were neither stupid nor failed to have the where-with-all to support their families. Indeed, situations such as in the Sudan where entire villages were wiped out or the villagers fled in fear of their lives, offer stark contrast to an otherwise peaceful people who were adept at taking care of their families and survived quite well until then.

Our own history of the "Dust Bowl" offers some striking similarities of families who had survived very well only to find themselves in the soup lines.

[Beo]

That is true Rick, never really thought of the war refugees in that sense. Still I say gotta clean our house first.

[MedicineWolf]

1) We all need and support the military for our wars and "police actions" until we get them home, then we forget them... truely sad. Notice how we're in a war now and its on the back burner anymore.
2) The government should take care of those here first, at home in the good ole U.S. of A. before going abroad and spreading the wealth. And they should start with my people the Native Americans they been *ick'en us around since they came here. Don't mean to sound offensive or like I don't care but the Katrina survivors now know what my people felt like.

[GVan]

Hey Medicine Wolf,

This government has been treating the military poorly for over 200 years. Even after the French and Indian war of the 1740's the British army refused to pay the conscripts and told them go and "fight" for land in the Ohio valley.
The American Revolution left Americans disillusioned with their new government.
The "Bonus Army" of W.W. I never got their bonuses for survice, but 350 of them were left o die in the Florida Keys as a result of government indiference during the hurricane of 1927(?).

Those who have served have always been neglected because the government feels that they have nothing of value to contribute to its (government's) needs.
Government is now as it always has been interested in is POWER. Get it, Hold it, Keep is, Use it, Abuse it.

When it comes to the soilders just remember that they sre our sons ad daughters, and it is our responsibility to bandage their wounds and heal their hearts.

In 72, when I returned from Vietnam, my uncles sat me down over acase of beer and we talked about our war experiences. And after a very long and wet weekend I realized that I wasn't the deamon that I had begun to feel that I was. The government didn't do it, my family did it.

"We're not against the soilders, we're against the war," 60's antiwar chant.